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already been launched with you this

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morning um so we will have these Jeff

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could you just turn down a bit things a

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bit loud thank you so you will remember

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that slide here and that slide was

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talking about connecting different

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pieces of the fence and every one of you

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basically holds a piece of the fence and

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honors that and contributes that piece

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of the fence and as we have discussed

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this morning we will use this evening to

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basically talk about the what we've

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called the code of conduct the code of

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conduct so just not to to avoid any

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confusion what we mean by code of

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conduct is how scientists should behave

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right not how the models of reality

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should behave we are talking about how

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the scientists should behave right so

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this is how we basically behave and

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interact and there are different

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dimensions I would want to first of all

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thank those of you who have contributed

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to the questionnaire to the online

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questionnaire so we have some of you

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might have seen the online questionnaire

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some of you might have contributed so

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the stuff that we are discussing today

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is mainly a result of the collection of

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of the of your input here right so it's

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not just something we've invented but

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it's sort of already coming from the

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audience so after we had reviewed this

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input we basically figured out that

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there are different topics around this

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code of conduct the first topic is to

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establish a common meaning and

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understanding of what science actually

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means and science actually is because if

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every one of you or us would have a

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different understanding of what science

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is then it's going to be difficult to

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actually collaborate the second one that

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we actually found out in these

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submissions is questions or statements

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around how to deal with evidence and

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here I have to say that I where's Paul

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over there you you have this you gave

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this excellent talk this morning about

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what is what how what are they the

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criteria for evidence right so so that

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you will see some of those coming up

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there as well because it's apparently a

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very important topic and then there is

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the whole topic around collaboration

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that is collaboration on an individual

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level collaboration within the SS II

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collaboration amongst different other

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organization

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so there are all of these questions

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basically coming up and then we have got

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the concilium spirit piece which is

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pulling the evidence together and then

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we have finally got topics around how to

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communicate what we have found right so

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those are the headlines or the kind of

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structure that we have distilled from

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the input that we have got from youth

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during the online survey role of the SS

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II is basically shall we continue to do

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what we have done or shall we probably

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add a bit to this and so we will we will

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probably come to a short discussion

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around mission statement if we've got

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the time for it and if we are still all

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awake and that gets me to the panel and

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the most important thing is I have been

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able to select the panel and guess who

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I've selected first person I would like

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to come on stage as branda a warm

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applause for Brenda

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[Applause]

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just grab a chair whichever you like

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right you can stay with me if you want

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you can actually go as far as far away

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as you can all right so the second

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person I'd like to invite onto the stage

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is Julie Julie bachelor warm applause

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for Julie do you see a pattern all right

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that's okay so the pattern is I can't do

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without another woman on stage so I'd

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like to invite someone who you have not

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seen on stage and who is close to my

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heart in terms of what they do so I'd

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like to invite Anya to come on stage

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please also a warm round of applause for

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Tanya find your place thank you

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all right and and finally finally I

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would love to have all of you on stage

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but the stage is too small for that so

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what we have done instead is we have got

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walking mics and that is basically Phil

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there and probably another colleague of

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Phil with another microphone so ever Oh

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Phyllis got two microphones and he has

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got the challenge to basically be in

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this aisle and in that aisle at the same

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point in time but but as everything is

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just consciousness just think about it

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it will work I mean all right so we have

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got walking mics we have actually we got

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rid of the stand because it will be a

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higher paced kind of engagement right so

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if you have if you have a question or if

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you want to make a statement

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chase Phil around right that is that is

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the purpose if you really want to get

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rid of one of those mics you might

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probably kindly ask someone else to oh

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we've already got a volunteer lovely so

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as we have said before it is meant to be

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an interactive session and to

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to be an interactive session we

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obviously have got the running mics here

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but we have also got a tool in place

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which is called slide Oh has anyone of

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you already heard of slide oh all right

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that's good one

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perfect so slider is basically an

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interactive tool which allows a live

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interaction between the audience and the

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people who are on stage and what we do

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here is it's a polling system so we

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actually will put up statements which

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you can vote upon where you can say okay

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I like it or I disagree or whatever so

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this is the kind of interaction and we

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will have this then live on stage and

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then on the on the screen so whatever

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you are doing voting we will see the

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results immediately here obviously in

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the consolidated way right for those of

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you who are actually going to be

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critical of the session afterwards here

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is the disclaimer this is not

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statistically relevant this is not a

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scientific setup and this is the way we

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do it in business which is quick and

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dirty right so let's let's do a let's do

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a warm-up in slider

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there is there is there has been a long

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debate about Wi-Fi in here and I think I

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basically don't create friends if I tell

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you how much they quoted us for having

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Wi-Fi in here but there was a conscious

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economic decision because we would want

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to finance three other conferences yeah

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the idea the idea is to use your phones

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most of you should have phones so the

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idea is if you type in slide or come

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into your internet browser yeah

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so try if you have another Wi-Fi

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connection which works for you you could

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try this as well and and we will

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basically start with a with a very

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simple kind of a bit of a bit of a game

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here so have everyone got this slide or

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calm if you are on the slide if you are

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on that site all you need to type in is

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this conference code which I've made

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difficult to remember deliberately right

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it's a test

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so can I can I show of hands who has

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already got access yeah are we getting

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there yeah we are getting there all

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right okay so what we are going to do is

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I'm going to now activate a first poll

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and that one basically says this is just

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that this is just to get you warmed up

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right there is a first poll which says

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there is a statement Colorado is a

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lovely place to have Ras se conferred

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and we've got a first one who is

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actually already replying okay whose

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nine people 11 people I mean come on

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there is 8% on okay they don't like it

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they don't like it that much I mean

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where are we ending up 19 people so far

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do we have more votes you see

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and actually if you change your mind you

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can also say no I just like it even if

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you have voted for it before so I see I

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see John already trying it's John it's

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John it's very very hot on that topic

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all right so you see John has just voted

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for he totally dislikes it this is just

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to get you familiar with the with the

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tool so you see how this works they are

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also there are also different questions

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here and that is that is the type of

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multiple-choice questions so I show you

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a multiple choice one and the multiple

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choice one is what is your area of

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conventional research and there is a

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drop-down or there is a there is a

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choice so pick what's your area of

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conventional research all right so we

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have got physics here currently or

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physics with 44% others others is always

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bad if there are so many others because

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that means we have done a bad job in

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defining the criteria if you lost of his

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is catching up religious studies

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mathematics and the nice thing is we get

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even more votes we are now with 31

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people so we are getting there oh come

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that makes my life difficult

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damn difficult alright feel I need you

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who has voted for others show of hands

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alright

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could you just could you just go through

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the rows and rows and just help me

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understand who is others you have just

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you've just said others fill it behind

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you please please raise your hand and I

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will bring your microphone to you yeah

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just just say what what others means for

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you biomedical engineering okay yep

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playwriting so I said this again

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playwriting playwriting playwriting

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music not doing research oh this is this

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is probably yeah we should have got that

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as a criteria not doing research that's

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the point yeah I just wanted to figure

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out what the missing link was here right

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so that is but just an increase in

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philosophy wherever this came from so

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this is just to make you familiar with

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another type of Paul we still have got

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one which is also very interesting and

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that is now what is your main area of

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anonymity of anomalies this is this is

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the bloody English word which I which I

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can't really pronounce anomalies

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research and and there you need to type

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something in so this is a different game

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so there we have got dowsing we have got

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intent what else do we have

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oh right homuth oh now it's getting

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crazy quant quantum physics energy you

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see and if someone happens to also

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choose another outside look at that what

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else do we have

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remote viewing gets more attention

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energy consciousness but psy is still a

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lot of traction there right pretty good

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pretty good and we are sort of we have

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around 26 active members we had 31

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but that's okay so then we have got an

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interesting question because what would

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you expect from that conference just

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type in what you expect from that

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transcendence who said that come on be

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brave free drinks free drinks bill bill

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so next all right to interact with

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like-minded individuals here we are you

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see

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enlightenment there we've got

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enlightenment is a I mean that would be

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that would be interesting if you would

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run conferences we could actually charge

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a huge fee if we promise that they will

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actually leave the conference

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enlightened afterwards and that should

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be really fun all right so this is where

276
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we are in terms of the but-but-but what

277
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you what you also need to what you also

278
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:21,170
need to know if you expect something to

279
00:13:26,290 --> 00:13:22,850
get you also need to be prepared

280
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something to give right so what would

281
00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:41,989
financial opportunity there is someone

282
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attention Canadian maple cookies I go

283
00:14:01,789 --> 00:13:59,879
for one alright so guys you you get you

284
00:14:03,169 --> 00:14:01,799
get the idea right so that is that is

285
00:14:04,999 --> 00:14:03,179
really what we do but we have a

286
00:14:07,069 --> 00:14:05,009
declining number of participants so no

287
00:14:10,009 --> 00:14:07,079
it's just when typing it's it's a it's

288
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:10,019
lower so this was just a fun part and

289
00:14:14,179 --> 00:14:11,910
now we really get serious there is no

290
00:14:25,579 --> 00:14:14,189
German mechanical engineer who is just

291
00:14:27,710 --> 00:14:25,589
having fun when I was when I was working

292
00:14:31,039 --> 00:14:27,720
with was build on in the preparation for

293
00:14:34,489 --> 00:14:31,049
that I figured out that bill is it's

294
00:14:36,379 --> 00:14:34,499
very big in statistics right so when I

295
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:36,389
suggested that we should use this tool

296
00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:38,910
he said ok what is the raw data that we

297
00:14:42,769 --> 00:14:40,769
get out of that right and is it

298
00:14:45,289 --> 00:14:42,779
anonymous and can we actually track all

299
00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:45,299
of that and we need to establish the

300
00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:46,889
baseline so that we can track the

301
00:14:52,189 --> 00:14:49,980
progress right so what's now happening

302
00:14:58,489 --> 00:14:52,199
is not me it's bill forcing me to do

303
00:15:01,159 --> 00:14:58,499
this but but but I go along with that so

304
00:15:03,619 --> 00:15:01,169
you what you now what you now got is you

305
00:15:06,139 --> 00:15:03,629
got a number of questions I think it's

306
00:15:08,929 --> 00:15:06,149
around six or seven questions which

307
00:15:10,579 --> 00:15:08,939
which you should vote upon please do

308
00:15:13,699 --> 00:15:10,589
this now and this is really just to

309
00:15:14,809 --> 00:15:13,709
establish a kind of baseline because we

310
00:15:17,419 --> 00:15:14,819
would want to see whether there is a

311
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:17,429
change whether there is a change in your

312
00:15:21,079 --> 00:15:18,600
perception whether there is a change

313
00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:21,089
from where you are today where you will

314
00:15:25,369 --> 00:15:23,100
be on Saturday in the afternoon or at

315
00:15:27,079 --> 00:15:25,379
the end of the session on Saturday right

316
00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:27,089
this won't show up at that very moment

317
00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:30,899
there but rest assured the the answers

318
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:33,689
are coming so I just give you a little

319
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:35,730
bit more time because you just need to

320
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:45,240
the question should be on the phone yeah

321
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:47,110
other questions on the phone I just I

322
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:48,970
just need to check yeah all right good

323
00:15:57,330 --> 00:15:56,800
yeah John could you help oh that would

324
00:15:59,610 --> 00:15:57,340
be lovely

325
00:16:02,010 --> 00:15:59,620
yeah this is like in an aircraft right

326
00:16:08,950 --> 00:16:02,020
put your own mask on first and then help

327
00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:13,389
all right so I'm not going to I'm not

328
00:16:19,450 --> 00:16:17,200
going to disclose those votes right now

329
00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:19,460
because this is just to establish a

330
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:24,200
baseline but just by show of hands how

331
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:25,850
many people have finished there are

332
00:16:31,630 --> 00:16:28,970
their votes oh okay

333
00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:31,640
a lot of people have finished them but

334
00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:34,220
we still need to start them somewhere so

335
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:35,750
I will leave this up for the moment

336
00:16:46,990 --> 00:16:37,910
whilst I actually will refer to my

337
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:47,000
beautiful panel don't underestimate the

338
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:52,190
physical appearance I shall say but

339
00:17:02,769 --> 00:16:55,730
you're right in terms of I yeah I set

340
00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:02,779
myself up for that yeah I know this the

341
00:17:07,049 --> 00:17:05,150
reason why I had you here is I had the

342
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:07,059
pleasure to speak to both of you

343
00:17:11,710 --> 00:17:10,010
beforehand and I would like to thank you

344
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:11,720
for that and I would like to thank Tom

345
00:17:17,290 --> 00:17:14,569
for approaching me today so that we

346
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:17,300
actually got the opportunity to to have

347
00:17:20,860 --> 00:17:19,130
her here and I'd like to I'd like to

348
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:20,870
give Tanya first the word so that you

349
00:17:23,949 --> 00:17:22,490
can probably tell a bit about your

350
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:23,959
background because most of the people

351
00:17:28,329 --> 00:17:25,910
don't know you and that would be

352
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:28,339
interesting to understand what you do

353
00:17:32,740 --> 00:17:29,120
and why you are here

354
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:32,750
thank you my backgrounds quite varied

355
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:35,900
but I've been in the business realm for

356
00:17:41,770 --> 00:17:39,050
about twenty years initially in FinTech

357
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:41,780
and more recently in what we now call

358
00:17:48,220 --> 00:17:45,110
transformational tech trans tech I'm not

359
00:17:51,010 --> 00:17:48,230
a coder I'm a product developer so I

360
00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:51,020
take the great ideas and help bring them

361
00:17:56,590 --> 00:17:54,110
to market and right now we're working on

362
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:56,600
a great idea and we're looking for some

363
00:18:01,600 --> 00:17:59,840
scientific brains to put behind it so

364
00:18:03,130 --> 00:18:01,610
what you see here is if you remember

365
00:18:04,660 --> 00:18:03,140
what we have discussed this morning

366
00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:04,670
there is a department which is the

367
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:06,800
development department right we had been

368
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:07,970
talking about the sales and marketing

369
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:10,100
department which did the market analysis

370
00:18:13,180 --> 00:18:11,840
then we have been talking about the

371
00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:13,190
development department which basically

372
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:14,809
pulls together the right products and

373
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:17,450
what tanya just said is there needs to

374
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:20,090
be a reliance on the on the research

375
00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:21,770
department on the science department

376
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,190
right

377
00:18:26,740 --> 00:18:24,320
so that is that is basically why we were

378
00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:26,750
here so so we have we have chosen her

379
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:29,660
because she is actually a real real case

380
00:18:34,570 --> 00:18:32,450
representative right this is not just

381
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,580
something we make up there sits someone

382
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:36,320
who is a representative of a business

383
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:38,570
and who has got certain expectations

384
00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:42,890
right to an audience such as this would

385
00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:45,590
you be able to just phrase in one or two

386
00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:48,500
sentences what you would ideally get out

387
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:51,680
of a group like that one or two

388
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:54,290
sentences well I think it drives me back

389
00:18:57,490 --> 00:18:55,310
to actually something you said this

390
00:18:59,860 --> 00:18:57,500
morning and it's reason why I came up to

391
00:19:02,490 --> 00:18:59,870
you and you said in speaking to the

392
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,500
crowd you said you have the gold and

393
00:19:07,810 --> 00:19:05,600
what that what that brought me to is

394
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:07,820
that that is that is so true you guys

395
00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:10,880
have the gold well think of us as the

396
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:12,830
mining company that will help you figure

397
00:19:17,020 --> 00:19:15,110
it out of mine it because we don't know

398
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:17,030
we don't know what the great ideas are

399
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:19,250
but we know that we can help you find

400
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:22,880
them so it's the it's the relationship

401
00:19:27,610 --> 00:19:24,710
building it's the communication piece

402
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:27,620
behind it it's the opportunity to sit

403
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:31,610
down with communities like this like SSC

404
00:19:36,670 --> 00:19:33,890
to understand what your science what

405
00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:36,680
your research is so that we can that the

406
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:39,470
business community can one potentially

407
00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:43,090
fund it and and then take it public and

408
00:19:47,650 --> 00:19:45,500
however that might look and that might

409
00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:47,660
not be of interest and it might be of an

410
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:49,700
amazing interest but there's such a

411
00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:53,570
great opportunity to work together and I

412
00:19:56,890 --> 00:19:54,920
think it's environments like this that

413
00:19:59,680 --> 00:19:56,900
give us the opportunity to do that and

414
00:20:01,930 --> 00:19:59,690
so yes that is one of the reasons I came

415
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:01,940
but I also came to learn and just to

416
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:03,410
experience it because I think it's an

417
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:06,890
amazing opportunity to do that too and

418
00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:10,310
what what this tells us is there is an

419
00:20:14,740 --> 00:20:12,590
appetite for that right I mean it's not

420
00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:14,750
that we had forced them in they were

421
00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:17,420
voluntarily coming here in order to

422
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:19,220
learn more and in order to understand

423
00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:20,990
what the key messages are and in order

424
00:20:26,020 --> 00:20:23,540
to engage so there is a real need there

425
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:26,030
is a real need out there in the market

426
00:20:31,150 --> 00:20:28,370
for for interaction with communities

427
00:20:33,070 --> 00:20:31,160
such as us right so this is a tangible

428
00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:33,080
thing so thank you Tanya for that I'd

429
00:20:37,870 --> 00:20:34,550
like to ask

430
00:20:39,910 --> 00:20:37,880
Julie what other communities are there

431
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:39,920
which we probably need to engage with I

432
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:41,690
mean Tonya had already spoken about

433
00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:43,490
business but what what other communities

434
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:46,550
might be around my first thing things to

435
00:20:52,750 --> 00:20:50,450
say media because the public believes

436
00:20:54,130 --> 00:20:52,760
what media provides them the stories the

437
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:54,140
narratives that media provides and

438
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:56,000
science isn't going to be able to change

439
00:20:59,890 --> 00:20:57,290
that and I don't think business or

440
00:21:01,900 --> 00:20:59,900
marketing necessarily but we need to be

441
00:21:04,570 --> 00:21:01,910
telling people the public the right

442
00:21:07,870 --> 00:21:04,580
stories yes you know we've seen I see so

443
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:07,880
many movies where oh it's the sci-fi and

444
00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:10,670
we took the brain and we downloaded it

445
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,200
and then we put it like we're not even

446
00:21:19,290 --> 00:21:14,720
in here like that's not relevant at all

447
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:19,300
and that is a silly story so Stu just to

448
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:22,490
sort of get our hands in media and stand

449
00:21:27,550 --> 00:21:24,650
to change the story that people are

450
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:27,560
telling and hearing right that's how we

451
00:21:35,650 --> 00:21:32,960
changed you know same-sex marriage that

452
00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:35,660
became acceptable because people saw it

453
00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:38,240
on TV and transgender lifestyle you know

454
00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:42,220
not so media media is picking on this

455
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:44,990
eye and non-local consciousness in the

456
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:47,630
media yeah so we have got business and

457
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:49,730
media what is what are other ideas what

458
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:50,720
are other what we would call

459
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:52,850
stakeholders what are other important

460
00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:54,710
communities which might be interested in

461
00:22:03,810 --> 00:21:59,210
what we are doing here education it's a

462
00:22:10,099 --> 00:22:03,820
big thing in education right I mean yeah

463
00:22:17,129 --> 00:22:14,129
experience so could you just I can't

464
00:22:19,019 --> 00:22:17,139
hear them sorry oh sorry people have got

465
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:19,029
Sai experience yes now I got you okay

466
00:22:22,589 --> 00:22:20,320
that's great

467
00:22:24,930 --> 00:22:22,599
so you you mean to basically give them a

468
00:22:26,999 --> 00:22:24,940
kind of support of a backup that they

469
00:22:30,060 --> 00:22:27,009
actually that they are not just mad I

470
00:22:32,249 --> 00:22:30,070
mean in terms of a community yeah this

471
00:22:34,589 --> 00:22:32,259
is a kind of home right a belonging

472
00:22:35,999 --> 00:22:34,599
feeling of a belonging great

473
00:22:41,549 --> 00:22:36,009
is there another theory another vote

474
00:22:45,149 --> 00:22:41,559
here hi my name is fuchsia and for the

475
00:22:48,389 --> 00:22:45,159
past four years I have been hosting a

476
00:22:51,329 --> 00:22:48,399
podcast called shattered reality podcast

477
00:22:53,879 --> 00:22:51,339
which deals with many aspects of the

478
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:53,889
anomalous many of the things that we

479
00:23:01,589 --> 00:22:57,210
spoke about here today and yesterday

480
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:01,599
there are 88 podcasts available 24/7 on

481
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:03,849
the Internet this is totally

482
00:23:09,690 --> 00:23:06,159
non-commercial there are no business

483
00:23:12,450 --> 00:23:09,700
people involved and it's free to the

484
00:23:15,389 --> 00:23:12,460
public and I've tried to ask intelligent

485
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:15,399
questions of intelligent people two of

486
00:23:21,570 --> 00:23:17,609
whom are on the stage with you right now

487
00:23:25,859 --> 00:23:21,580
and you don't talk about me right no not

488
00:23:28,979 --> 00:23:25,869
yet maybe someday but so the purpose of

489
00:23:33,239 --> 00:23:28,989
this is to provide a service free of any

490
00:23:35,549 --> 00:23:33,249
charge to anyone who wants to express

491
00:23:37,820 --> 00:23:35,559
some interesting ideas about size

492
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:37,830
phenomena the anomalous and

493
00:23:43,709 --> 00:23:41,200
consciousness I do this basically all by

494
00:23:46,229 --> 00:23:43,719
myself except the gentleman who records

495
00:23:48,719 --> 00:23:46,239
this if anybody would like to get

496
00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:48,729
involved and help me in any way with

497
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:51,940
publicizing this it's it's nonprofit I

498
00:24:03,180 --> 00:23:55,440
make no profit I spend money on it okay

499
00:24:06,779 --> 00:24:03,190
thank you that's why I excuse me you

500
00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:06,789
shattered reality podcast wordpress.com

501
00:24:13,159 --> 00:24:09,820
there's a big pink there there's a big

502
00:24:15,509 --> 00:24:13,169
sign outside there are pink cards

503
00:24:17,789 --> 00:24:15,519
involved that you can take one with you

504
00:24:19,139 --> 00:24:17,799
this is not commercial no no this this

505
00:24:20,849 --> 00:24:19,149
is great because I think it's very

506
00:24:22,409 --> 00:24:20,859
important to also distinguish what Julia

507
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:22,419
has said Julia has I think you have

508
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:23,410
referred to media

509
00:24:27,620 --> 00:24:25,360
as sort of the the professional media

510
00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:27,630
the film industry and these kind of

511
00:24:33,330 --> 00:24:30,460
groups right and what you are talking is

512
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:33,340
basically the the lay audience I mean

513
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:35,350
the the average person right and there

514
00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:36,670
is another channel there there are

515
00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:38,470
podcasts for example as you run them

516
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:39,880
thank you for this contribution this is

517
00:24:58,650 --> 00:24:57,250
really good no it's also for the

518
00:25:02,490 --> 00:24:58,660
recording it's for the recording it's

519
00:25:05,580 --> 00:25:02,500
better hello in terms of the communities

520
00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:05,590
the the two the two last examples are

521
00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:08,980
actually really great ones to to focus

522
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:11,020
on in all of these communities but the

523
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:12,730
health care and education

524
00:25:18,540 --> 00:25:16,270
there is two communities really that

525
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:18,550
we're talking about in each case there

526
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:21,700
is the business of health care who

527
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:23,470
probably really doesn't want to hear

528
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:26,140
anything about this and then there's the

529
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:27,910
essence of health care that really needs

530
00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:30,130
to hear about it and education the same

531
00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:32,920
way education who desperately needs this

532
00:25:36,090 --> 00:25:33,430
yeah

533
00:25:39,030 --> 00:25:36,100
the business of Education desperately

534
00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:39,040
does not want to hear about this so you

535
00:25:42,780 --> 00:25:41,230
know in all of these communities it's

536
00:25:44,430 --> 00:25:42,790
it's something to think about as we

537
00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:44,440
identify those communities and who to

538
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:47,860
reach out to and to aya by all means we

539
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:50,460
should be doing this but to move forward

540
00:25:54,450 --> 00:25:52,930
deliberately and carefully and sensibly

541
00:25:56,370 --> 00:25:54,460
is an important piece of this I think

542
00:25:57,650 --> 00:25:56,380
yes and in in business in business

543
00:25:59,910 --> 00:25:57,660
language we would call it a

544
00:26:01,710 --> 00:25:59,920
communication strategy or communication

545
00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:01,720
plan basically right so you define who

546
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:03,550
who to speak to and who should basically

547
00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:07,600
get what message yeah I just like to

548
00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:10,060
amplify a little bit about Geoff's

549
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:13,620
comments on the business of healthcare

550
00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:16,720
by sharing something that I learned from

551
00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:19,660
a friend of mine who is an MD and a

552
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:24,460
professor one of her class exercises for

553
00:26:29,730 --> 00:26:27,430
med students divides everybody up into

554
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:29,740
small divides the class up into three

555
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:32,350
groups and all of them have the same

556
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:36,910
assignment design the ideal properties

557
00:26:40,770 --> 00:26:37,630
for

558
00:26:44,010 --> 00:26:40,780
perfect weight-loss drug and then she

559
00:26:45,870 --> 00:26:44,020
gives them the kicker you guys designed

560
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:45,880
the perfect weight-loss drug for the

561
00:26:51,180 --> 00:26:48,610
viewpoint of the patient you guys design

562
00:26:52,980 --> 00:26:51,190
it from the viewpoint of the doctor you

563
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:52,990
guys designed it from the viewpoint of a

564
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:54,850
pharmaceutical company perfect yeah yeah

565
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:57,010
makes a lot of sense yeah this is

566
00:27:01,200 --> 00:26:58,570
tailored communication because we need

567
00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:01,210
to understand our stakeholders right so

568
00:27:06,030 --> 00:27:03,910
I don't really dive deeper in here but

569
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:06,040
what we see is we have got business we

570
00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:08,470
have got media and we have got a lot of

571
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,080
other a lot of other stakeholders which

572
00:27:14,790 --> 00:27:13,360
actually have an interest and vital

573
00:27:16,890 --> 00:27:14,800
interest in what we can produce

574
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,900
collectively out of the SSE and and

575
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:18,880
similar organizations right so there is

576
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:22,570
there is a real market there but I'd

577
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:25,090
like to draw to you Brenda to probably

578
00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:27,460
help us to understand how we could

579
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,100
communicate how we should communicate so

580
00:27:34,290 --> 00:27:31,600
what should we do how what is the

581
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:34,300
language we should use well I think you

582
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:38,710
just said the magic word language we

583
00:27:44,550 --> 00:27:42,610
have a tendency in well within that not

584
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:44,560
as much within this community but

585
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:46,450
certainly within the scientific and

586
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:49,690
academic and business communities and

587
00:28:00,750 --> 00:27:56,850
etc etc of the these parochial languages

588
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:00,760
I can recall when I first started

589
00:28:07,530 --> 00:28:04,080
graduate school I went to a seminar

590
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:07,540
probably the second week and I was

591
00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:08,830
trying to figure out what they were

592
00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:12,760
talking about and it hit me right then

593
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:15,070
in there that this isn't about education

594
00:28:20,730 --> 00:28:17,350
this is about learning the proper

595
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:20,740
language that would identify me as a

596
00:28:27,690 --> 00:28:23,890
member of this community so that I can

597
00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:27,700
publish I can make presentations but I

598
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:30,670
can be recognized and it's it's part of

599
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:32,770
building fences but I think in a

600
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:38,290
non-productive way we tend to separate

601
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:41,370
ourselves out by the language we use and

602
00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:44,650
we take pride in having very specialized

603
00:28:48,940 --> 00:28:47,470
languages for this field for that field

604
00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:48,950
and

605
00:28:54,220 --> 00:28:53,080
works against real communication or

606
00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:54,230
Sicilians

607
00:29:02,010 --> 00:28:58,190
I think we have to be a giving thought

608
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:02,020
about meaning mm-hmm

609
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:05,330
try to understand what somebody else is

610
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:07,850
saying in their particular jargon and

611
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:11,570
how that relates to my particular jargon

612
00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:15,170
and trying to find common languages that

613
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:17,000
would enable us to communicate with the

614
00:29:24,780 --> 00:29:20,240
broader society in you know and now

615
00:29:27,670 --> 00:29:24,790
we're back to the media or the marketing

616
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:27,680
but if science is going to contribute

617
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:29,810
something that is going to be meaningful

618
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:33,290
to the GAVI the larger community or

619
00:29:40,090 --> 00:29:36,080
that's going to be marketable to the the

620
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:40,100
corporate community it has to it has to

621
00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:43,130
be understandable yes and not this sort

622
00:29:49,630 --> 00:29:46,940
of insular secret coded languages that

623
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:49,640
many academics and scientists pride

624
00:29:58,030 --> 00:29:52,850
themselves on that also applies within

625
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:58,040
the academic world of course you know we

626
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:00,640
need to start looking at

627
00:30:07,870 --> 00:30:04,730
interdisciplinary communication and I'm

628
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:07,880
not talking about theoretical physicists

629
00:30:12,970 --> 00:30:10,130
taking an experimental physicist out to

630
00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:12,980
lunch every six months I'm talking about

631
00:30:18,940 --> 00:30:15,260
a theoretical physicist taking a

632
00:30:25,030 --> 00:30:18,950
philosopher out to lunch or a literature

633
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:25,040
major or a poet I and let me add to that

634
00:30:31,090 --> 00:30:27,890
is I think we need to recognize the

635
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:31,100
important role of the Arts as a

636
00:30:37,810 --> 00:30:34,130
musician's here yes as a vehicle of

637
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:37,820
communication yeah because through the

638
00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:40,690
arts we can communicate we can find

639
00:30:49,450 --> 00:30:44,150
languages that transcend the the

640
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:49,460
specializations I am a very big fan of

641
00:30:56,410 --> 00:30:51,710
metaphor

642
00:30:59,260 --> 00:30:56,420
critical aspects of real communication

643
00:31:02,140 --> 00:30:59,270
in fact I think ultimately all

644
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:02,150
communication is metaphor because we are

645
00:31:07,570 --> 00:31:03,010
described

646
00:31:09,610 --> 00:31:07,580
something in language and usually we

647
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:09,620
can't describe it directly we can only

648
00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:11,930
say this is like that or this reminds me

649
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:16,720
of so I think those language is really a

650
00:31:23,260 --> 00:31:21,350
vital aspect of where we need to go yes

651
00:31:26,140 --> 00:31:23,270
and yeah yeah absolutely

652
00:31:28,150 --> 00:31:26,150
I think that's a particular problem in

653
00:31:31,660 --> 00:31:28,160
this field because the language that we

654
00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:31,670
have often invokes like an emotional

655
00:31:36,460 --> 00:31:33,830
response like you know if you say

656
00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:36,470
telepathy clairvoyance to people like

657
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:38,270
some people will make a face no one ever

658
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:39,890
made that face to me when I said

659
00:31:49,540 --> 00:31:43,370
vascular endothelial growth factor until

660
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,550
sorry but so there is an established

661
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:51,200
language and we do have to use it but

662
00:31:55,630 --> 00:31:54,710
unfortunately that language makes people

663
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:55,640
uncomfortable

664
00:32:01,270 --> 00:31:57,530
yeah so that's a hurdle that we have to

665
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:01,280
deal with yeah totally agree to that

666
00:32:08,530 --> 00:32:05,930
point in our own research program we

667
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:08,540
discovered very early on that if we use

668
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:11,440
the word psychic phenomena or

669
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:17,450
parapsychology people shuttles so we

670
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:19,250
started talking about consciousness

671
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:22,730
related anomalies and I used to have a

672
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:24,710
lot of fun when I would meet some

673
00:32:30,220 --> 00:32:27,290
mainstream scientists who would say and

674
00:32:33,010 --> 00:32:30,230
what do you do young lady and I'll say

675
00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:33,020
oh I'm in human factors engineering oh

676
00:32:38,050 --> 00:32:34,070
really

677
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:38,060
what sort of do you I mean you know and

678
00:32:44,350 --> 00:32:41,090
I would go on well I am looking into

679
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:44,360
human machine interactions and oh yeah

680
00:32:49,870 --> 00:32:46,310
no will tell me more well by the time we

681
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:49,880
got another layer or two along they'd

682
00:32:56,380 --> 00:32:53,510
get this look she's talking about what I

683
00:32:59,800 --> 00:32:56,390
think she but you know I did get in

684
00:33:02,590 --> 00:32:59,810
there before he shut down and so we need

685
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:02,600
to have the insular language among

686
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:04,910
ourselves or between ourselves but we

687
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:08,510
also have to be able to generalize it to

688
00:33:14,139 --> 00:33:11,090
a broader community and we also have to

689
00:33:14,139 --> 00:33:14,149
be able to have fun with people

690
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:16,310
definitely and I think that comes back

691
00:33:21,049 --> 00:33:17,880
to that what John was saying about the

692
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:21,059
community of Sciences because sometimes

693
00:33:25,639 --> 00:33:22,710
the language doesn't matter you could

694
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:25,649
say oh well you know how like a mom can

695
00:33:28,490 --> 00:33:27,090
know that our kid got in a car accident

696
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:28,500
all the way across the country people

697
00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:30,330
yeah yeah that's what I'm talking about

698
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:31,950
like you know it doesn't ever need the

699
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:33,630
language because they know what that

700
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:36,179
phenomenon is true and stories that's

701
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:38,130
another way that getting through to

702
00:33:44,029 --> 00:33:40,049
people are stories and that does come

703
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:44,039
back to the media yeah yeah so Tonya

704
00:33:47,659 --> 00:33:46,110
what would be the language that you as a

705
00:33:49,159 --> 00:33:47,669
representative of the business world

706
00:33:51,409 --> 00:33:49,169
would understand

707
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,419
I mean how should it sound that you

708
00:33:55,850 --> 00:33:53,760
understand it it's a really tough

709
00:33:58,039 --> 00:33:55,860
question and I and I I don't actually

710
00:34:01,039 --> 00:33:58,049
have an answer I think that that

711
00:34:02,419 --> 00:34:01,049
business is in a similar position we

712
00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:02,429
have our own language we talk about ROI

713
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:04,470
we talk about marketing we talk about

714
00:34:11,869 --> 00:34:07,289
silos and and none of those things are

715
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:11,879
you know jargon words for academia so

716
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:14,010
it's it's I actually brought the

717
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:16,290
communication piece up earlier it's it's

718
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:20,879
a huge issue how we communicate together

719
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:24,450
I think isn't so much about creating a

720
00:34:28,369 --> 00:34:26,730
shared language as just working on it we

721
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:28,379
just have to start working on it we have

722
00:34:33,290 --> 00:34:31,320
to start trying and asking a lot of

723
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:33,300
questions I ask a lot of questions

724
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:35,250
especially in a place like this where I

725
00:34:39,770 --> 00:34:37,500
know very little about what is happening

726
00:34:42,829 --> 00:34:39,780
so I have to ask a lot of questions and

727
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:42,839
I think one of the one of the things I

728
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:45,570
come up against when I'm talking to PhD

729
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,089
is in science off scientists often is as

730
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,639
a business person it's oh stop asking me

731
00:34:54,919 --> 00:34:53,040
questions and that's difficult because

732
00:34:56,510 --> 00:34:54,929
we don't know so have a little bit of

733
00:35:01,970 --> 00:34:56,520
compassion for us and allow us to ask

734
00:35:03,980 --> 00:35:01,980
questions and and then and then we can

735
00:35:06,290 --> 00:35:03,990
work towards it and and by all means ask

736
00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:06,300
us questions and that's what you do in

737
00:35:09,740 --> 00:35:08,700
science you ask questions so I think

738
00:35:10,220 --> 00:35:09,750
that would probably be a good place to

739
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:10,230
start

740
00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:20,140
in in the area of communications I think

741
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:23,550
one thing that SSE can do and does do

742
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:28,079
very well is to cross the discipline

743
00:35:33,150 --> 00:35:31,450
barriers and language barriers because

744
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:33,160
there's people here with so many

745
00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:34,720
different interest we've just seen this

746
00:35:38,730 --> 00:35:36,190
right I mean so many different

747
00:35:40,650 --> 00:35:38,740
backgrounds here and I know that I have

748
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,660
learned a lot over the years listening

749
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:42,400
to people who are coming from a

750
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:43,660
different field or different

751
00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:47,950
perspectives and I have and but we have

752
00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:49,000
to listen to each other

753
00:35:54,660 --> 00:35:51,550
mm-hmm and this is something that we

754
00:35:57,059 --> 00:35:54,670
already do and perhaps there's some way

755
00:36:00,240 --> 00:35:57,069
we can promote this more assertively

756
00:36:03,390 --> 00:36:00,250
thank you so I have some experience with

757
00:36:05,690 --> 00:36:03,400
this language barrier so psychology is

758
00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:05,700
my main interest and I work a lot with

759
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:08,020
exploring subconscious and with hypnosis

760
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:11,290
I call the entire body of that work

761
00:36:15,059 --> 00:36:13,210
consciousness alchemy to include things

762
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:15,069
like yoga as well as hypnosis

763
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,300
there are things where you're changing

764
00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:18,880
the way your perspective works and I've

765
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:20,230
been very frustrated because the

766
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:23,490
terminologies from you know Jungian

767
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:27,970
terminology to Sanskrit and yoga it's

768
00:36:31,049 --> 00:36:29,230
like we're talking about the same stuff

769
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:31,059
but we're using different words so it's

770
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:32,410
very frustrating so I actually can

771
00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:34,510
maintain a glossary on my website I call

772
00:36:38,549 --> 00:36:36,040
it the consciousness alchemy glossary

773
00:36:40,289 --> 00:36:38,559
the page goes on a long time but if you

774
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,299
bear with the page and read it it's it's

775
00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:42,400
basically like reading a glossary of all

776
00:36:45,539 --> 00:36:43,750
of these psychology terms that I've been

777
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:45,549
collecting from places like young and

778
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:48,280
like yoga and like other places in order

779
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:49,990
to have a reference so that when I write

780
00:36:53,819 --> 00:36:51,490
an article about these concepts I can

781
00:36:55,140 --> 00:36:53,829
actually link to the specific word in

782
00:36:56,549 --> 00:36:55,150
the glossary and you'll go right to that

783
00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:56,559
part of the page and you can read the

784
00:36:59,640 --> 00:36:57,910
definition and then continue reading the

785
00:37:02,700 --> 00:36:59,650
article without me having to redefine

786
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:02,710
what I mean by let's say Tana which is a

787
00:37:07,319 --> 00:37:05,410
Sanskrit word every time that I use it I

788
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,329
think I think this is great I mean you

789
00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:09,839
you probably know the phenomena that you

790
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:12,670
speak to someone and you agree verbally

791
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:13,930
but you have been talking about

792
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:16,930
different things right I mean this these

793
00:37:20,460 --> 00:37:18,490
things happen and I think the glossary

794
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:20,470
is a very good example I mean this is

795
00:37:23,849 --> 00:37:22,480
like just in conclusion basically I

796
00:37:25,799 --> 00:37:23,859
think what we need to spend more time

797
00:37:28,109 --> 00:37:25,809
figuring out how we're talking about the

798
00:37:30,359 --> 00:37:28,119
same thing and adopting other people's

799
00:37:32,370 --> 00:37:30,369
words so stop inventing a new word every

800
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:32,380
time you come up with a new concept and

801
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:34,390
just consider that maybe somebody else

802
00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:36,010
had this concept and try to stretch your

803
00:37:38,819 --> 00:37:37,420
mind to try to figure out how the two

804
00:37:40,549 --> 00:37:38,829
concepts are the same instead of saying

805
00:37:42,049 --> 00:37:40,559
oh mine's different and making a new

806
00:37:43,549 --> 00:37:42,059
and there is something called

807
00:37:46,130 --> 00:37:43,559
consilience I don't know whether you've

808
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:46,140
heard the never the word before and it

809
00:37:49,699 --> 00:37:48,209
makes a lot of sense if we if we have

810
00:37:52,579 --> 00:37:49,709
the same language if we talk about the

811
00:37:56,329 --> 00:37:52,589
same thing one other dimension of this

812
00:37:58,910 --> 00:37:56,339
is in terms in in addition to asking how

813
00:38:01,939 --> 00:37:58,920
we how our language affects or what

814
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:01,949
what's the right language to positively

815
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:03,599
and effectively affect the world around

816
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:07,410
us is to look at our own behaviors in

817
00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:09,630
our own language as we're using it even

818
00:38:13,249 --> 00:38:11,430
within our own dialects and I mean

819
00:38:15,739 --> 00:38:13,259
dialect in the sense that the panel just

820
00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:15,749
described it and I'll give you an

821
00:38:20,359 --> 00:38:18,599
example how many times have you heard

822
00:38:22,910 --> 00:38:20,369
somebody talk about the problem of

823
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:22,920
energy or the problem of kinetic energy

824
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:25,079
you don't hear that phrase terribly much

825
00:38:30,319 --> 00:38:26,609
how many times you hear people talk

826
00:38:33,549 --> 00:38:30,329
about the problem of consciousness why

827
00:38:36,469 --> 00:38:33,559
do we use why is that a problem right

828
00:38:38,449 --> 00:38:36,479
but but think about it as you're asking

829
00:38:40,130 --> 00:38:38,459
your own questions you know I need to I

830
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:40,140
need to understand I need to explain

831
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:43,049
consciousness I heard this a lot I don't

832
00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:44,400
ever hear anybody saying I need to

833
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:48,150
explain this chair what so as we're

834
00:38:52,910 --> 00:38:50,249
using our own language keep in mind that

835
00:38:56,439 --> 00:38:52,920
this that those words affect our own

836
00:38:59,179 --> 00:38:56,449
cells right so the languages is both

837
00:39:01,579 --> 00:38:59,189
externally facing per your question but

838
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:01,589
it's also as an internal effect uniforms

839
00:39:05,359 --> 00:39:04,140
our own thinking and you know the only

840
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:05,369
thing you can do about that is of course

841
00:39:10,099 --> 00:39:07,049
be conscious of it there's a word again

842
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:10,109
but you know do your best to do so and I

843
00:39:14,479 --> 00:39:12,569
think that will help in all these

844
00:39:15,949 --> 00:39:14,489
communication issues that everybody else

845
00:39:18,009 --> 00:39:15,959
has been talking yeah there's a thought

846
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:18,019
- sure

847
00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:20,130
one other thing when you just when I

848
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:21,630
just was listening to you which came to

849
00:39:25,849 --> 00:39:24,150
my mind is that in different languages

850
00:39:29,749 --> 00:39:25,859
or different communities have got

851
00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:29,759
sometimes a more detailed vocabulary I

852
00:39:34,939 --> 00:39:32,579
mean take for example the word snow we

853
00:39:38,749 --> 00:39:34,949
talk about snow but if you actually go

854
00:39:40,729 --> 00:39:38,759
to to Alaska to some of the some of the

855
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:40,739
people living there they probably have

856
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:42,689
got twenty to thirty different types of

857
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:45,209
snow which they can distinguish and only

858
00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:46,529
when you have got twenty to thirty

859
00:39:49,999 --> 00:39:47,849
different types of snow that you can

860
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:50,009
distinguish you can actually start sort

861
00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:52,049
of see correlations and these kinds of

862
00:39:55,579 --> 00:39:53,940
things we just talk snow I mean

863
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:55,589
this is like this is like we talk

864
00:39:59,329 --> 00:39:57,420
consciousness while it's probably in the

865
00:40:00,770 --> 00:39:59,339
Eastern traditions the Vedic traditions

866
00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:00,780
or so there are different types of

867
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:02,670
consciousness just in terms of

868
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:04,980
terminology available right so I think I

869
00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:06,720
think this language thing this this

870
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:08,280
communication thing is something where

871
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:10,500
we where we need to be extremely careful

872
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:13,290
that we don't just fall into traps which

873
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:39,050
sorry and I find that a fascinating

874
00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:41,910
opportunity to familiarize myself with

875
00:40:48,589 --> 00:40:44,940
different languages that are addressing

876
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:48,599
similar topics we have published two

877
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:52,020
anthologies in which we picked a topic

878
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:56,910
and then we invited oh I don't know 14

879
00:41:04,250 --> 00:41:00,960
or 15 people from different disciplines

880
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:04,260
from different countries and from

881
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:07,550
different you know personals

882
00:41:14,030 --> 00:41:11,010
perspectives to submit an essay or a

883
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:14,040
chapter and I then have the opportunity

884
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:16,290
to sit there and read all of these and

885
00:41:22,130 --> 00:41:19,650
say my god these they're all saying the

886
00:41:24,859 --> 00:41:22,140
same thing but they're saying it in

887
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:24,869
totally different ways and in the

888
00:41:31,250 --> 00:41:27,359
process of doing the editing I find this

889
00:41:34,839 --> 00:41:31,260
very educational I am learning so maybe

890
00:41:38,660 --> 00:41:34,849
we need to listen to or read about or

891
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:38,670
familiarize ourselves with languages

892
00:41:43,819 --> 00:41:40,790
other than our own to become

893
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:43,829
intellectually multilingual before

894
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:44,970
you've got you cannot just add something

895
00:41:49,940 --> 00:41:46,920
to that particular case because it just

896
00:41:52,010 --> 00:41:49,950
came to my mind talking about the same

897
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:52,020
thing but using a different language I

898
00:41:57,380 --> 00:41:53,970
mean what popped up in my mind is we

899
00:42:00,260 --> 00:41:57,390
have got Wars based on religious

900
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:00,270
conflicts but if you really look into

901
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:02,490
the into the essence

902
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:04,800
I'm not postulating this but I think

903
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:06,810
this is my gut feeling that the essence

904
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:07,410
of the

905
00:42:12,380 --> 00:42:10,770
message is probably similar right but we

906
00:42:13,849 --> 00:42:12,390
use and we are using different languages

907
00:42:15,829 --> 00:42:13,859
and I keep it easy I'm just bringing

908
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:15,839
this example up as it can even get so

909
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:18,690
severe as there are Wars around that

910
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:21,119
right if we don't get that right sorry

911
00:42:27,620 --> 00:42:24,510
two things one just the simple naming of

912
00:42:31,059 --> 00:42:27,630
things can sort of be pathologize it

913
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:31,069
when people know like if like

914
00:42:35,539 --> 00:42:33,359
psychological disorders and go oh

915
00:42:38,569 --> 00:42:35,549
there's a name for that it's so common

916
00:42:40,010 --> 00:42:38,579
they named it I'm not all on my own so

917
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:40,020
when we have all this you know

918
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:42,690
glossaries of things that we can show

919
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:44,130
people like no no that thing that

920
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:46,200
happened to you it's called this that

921
00:42:50,029 --> 00:42:48,690
people go oh it's real what happened to

922
00:42:53,329 --> 00:42:50,039
me and then the other thing I was going

923
00:42:55,279 --> 00:42:53,339
to say was the having a having a

924
00:42:59,180 --> 00:42:55,289
language to describe things can

925
00:43:00,410 --> 00:42:59,190
literally change perception I eyesight

926
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:00,420
the city all the time where they took

927
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,670
people taking a wine-tasting class and

928
00:43:05,420 --> 00:43:04,079
they were novices and they gave them

929
00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:05,430
three classes one they said taste these

930
00:43:08,420 --> 00:43:06,900
is this the same one or different wine

931
00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:08,430
they said that's all the same and then

932
00:43:11,779 --> 00:43:09,660
over the course of the class they

933
00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:11,789
learned would words like woody and

934
00:43:16,339 --> 00:43:14,190
fruity and by the end of the class they

935
00:43:18,170 --> 00:43:16,349
could literally taste the difference

936
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:18,180
between the wines just by learning the

937
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:20,910
terminology so it truly can change our

938
00:43:26,299 --> 00:43:23,250
perception of the world knowing these

939
00:43:28,279 --> 00:43:26,309
terms yes so there are a lot of tricks

940
00:43:31,789 --> 00:43:28,289
we can apply I think what for we get

941
00:43:33,529 --> 00:43:31,799
ordered my colleague Roger Nelson used

942
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:33,539
to carry around these little business

943
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:36,450
cards that read language bewitches

944
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:48,210
intelligence all right so let's let's

945
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:49,920
close this conversation here around

946
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:51,930
around language and communication I

947
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:54,510
think what what appears to be here is

948
00:43:58,430 --> 00:43:56,490
that this is really important that we

949
00:44:00,019 --> 00:43:58,440
think about that we think who we T who

950
00:44:01,849 --> 00:44:00,029
we talk to and how we talk to these

951
00:44:03,799 --> 00:44:01,859
people what what is the language that we

952
00:44:06,289 --> 00:44:03,809
actually use I would want to get you

953
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:06,299
again involved in the in the next poll

954
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:09,359
so the I'm going to release the next one

955
00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:12,660
which is just around the area of what is

956
00:44:18,289 --> 00:44:15,359
what is our understanding of science so

957
00:44:20,660 --> 00:44:18,299
these are actually coming from you right

958
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:20,670
we haven't invented them but please vote

959
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:21,240
on those

960
00:44:30,770 --> 00:44:22,950
kind of thing so what do you what you

961
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:30,780
will think about that so here we are we

962
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:35,520
have cut would you agree with that

963
00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:38,190
statement so we've got six people yeah

964
00:44:44,750 --> 00:44:42,660
there is we have got no one disagreeing

965
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:44,760
I need to disclose something to you when

966
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,410
when Bill and I were talking about that

967
00:44:51,050 --> 00:44:48,240
and going through those statements bill

968
00:44:52,850 --> 00:44:51,060
said if there are statements where

969
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:52,860
anyone disagrees we should have a

970
00:45:00,470 --> 00:44:54,210
serious conversation whether you would

971
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:00,480
stay within the SSU or not no but this

972
00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:02,130
is this is interesting you see we have a

973
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:04,110
strong we have a strength strong support

974
00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:06,060
for that one I'm going to go to the next

975
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:08,220
to the next vote here to the next poll

976
00:45:14,270 --> 00:45:11,250
which is again coming from from one of

977
00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:14,280
you basically so it says truths requires

978
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:16,710
letting go of individuality separation

979
00:45:21,410 --> 00:45:18,810
belief dogma protection and ownership of

980
00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:21,420
knowledge would you agree or would you

981
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:27,990
disagree with that again so far all we

982
00:45:31,730 --> 00:45:29,250
have got we have got a slight

983
00:45:34,580 --> 00:45:31,740
disagreement there even the bigger

984
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:34,590
disagreement all right you see this is a

985
00:45:44,210 --> 00:45:38,609
more diverse response here I'm waiting

986
00:45:47,090 --> 00:45:44,220
for a couple of more votes so so this is

987
00:45:48,890 --> 00:45:47,100
this is not that obvious right so I'm

988
00:45:51,770 --> 00:45:48,900
just wondering what is the difference

989
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:51,780
here I mean is it where where does it

990
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,480
come from why is there why is there not

991
00:45:59,450 --> 00:45:56,640
so much of a support there can someone

992
00:46:01,070 --> 00:45:59,460
just out of intuition why why is there

993
00:46:05,660 --> 00:46:01,080
less of an agreement here the microphone

994
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:05,670
is coming well I teach sociology of

995
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:08,010
knowledge and that I think the problem

996
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:10,440
is probably that we know that that's not

997
00:46:15,820 --> 00:46:13,770
what actually happens and that science

998
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:15,830
is not objective even though it's a nice

999
00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:18,720
it's a nice goal we would like science

1000
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:20,700
to be objective and so would I I'm a

1001
00:46:25,010 --> 00:46:22,730
sort of a moderate on this issue but

1002
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:25,020
actually knowledge is socially

1003
00:46:29,900 --> 00:46:27,330
constructed so that I think one reason

1004
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:29,910
why people might be hesitant is that

1005
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:31,369
they know that they know that it's

1006
00:46:37,059 --> 00:46:33,049
grounded in

1007
00:46:43,329 --> 00:46:37,069
in social construction mm-hmm okay true

1008
00:46:46,599 --> 00:46:43,339
yeah okay I'd like to ask a

1009
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:46,609
supplementary question on a scale of one

1010
00:46:54,399 --> 00:46:51,169
to thirty seven currently how many

1011
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:54,409
definitions of truth do we think we have

1012
00:47:00,219 --> 00:46:58,640
in this room and again it's you you

1013
00:47:01,539 --> 00:47:00,229
allude to it to a language thing again

1014
00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:01,549
right it's a definitional thing it's a

1015
00:47:05,889 --> 00:47:03,380
glossary thing okay so I would actually

1016
00:47:08,439 --> 00:47:05,899
have a definition of truth that goes

1017
00:47:13,269 --> 00:47:08,449
that the total objective truth is the

1018
00:47:16,689 --> 00:47:13,279
sum of all subjective truths okay good

1019
00:47:19,089 --> 00:47:16,699
that's there there is a yes sorry um how

1020
00:47:21,339 --> 00:47:19,099
can you let go of into individuality is

1021
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:21,349
that even possible that's why I have an

1022
00:47:26,679 --> 00:47:23,390
objection okay okay they were there what

1023
00:47:28,839 --> 00:47:26,689
you see so this is your Q on the subject

1024
00:47:31,319 --> 00:47:28,849
of truth which we've been discussing I

1025
00:47:35,409 --> 00:47:31,329
just wanted to throw out a thought that

1026
00:47:37,899 --> 00:47:35,419
came from a book on philosophy I read a

1027
00:47:40,809 --> 00:47:37,909
while ago what difference is there

1028
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:40,819
between saying X is true and simply

1029
00:47:49,179 --> 00:47:47,630
saying X all right this this is the part

1030
00:47:50,439 --> 00:47:49,189
where the science community is basically

1031
00:47:52,749 --> 00:47:50,449
more than more advanced than the

1032
00:47:56,409 --> 00:47:52,759
engineers from Germany but I think about

1033
00:47:58,689 --> 00:47:56,419
this sorry we can yeah there is another

1034
00:48:01,749 --> 00:47:58,699
one one man's truth is another person's

1035
00:48:04,989 --> 00:48:01,759
propaganda one man's truth is another

1036
00:48:07,329 --> 00:48:04,999
person's propaganda Wow strong all right

1037
00:48:09,339 --> 00:48:07,339
so again here we see we see these kind

1038
00:48:11,289 --> 00:48:09,349
of things I'm going to just go to the

1039
00:48:14,139 --> 00:48:11,299
next poll because we have got can I

1040
00:48:16,209 --> 00:48:14,149
bring just up one other thought well are

1041
00:48:18,249 --> 00:48:16,219
you sorry right here I just want to

1042
00:48:20,529 --> 00:48:18,259
bring up a different point oh I'm not

1043
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,539
yes oh you're intellectually not tied to

1044
00:48:25,179 --> 00:48:23,119
one way or the other but I think the

1045
00:48:28,779 --> 00:48:25,189
point that someone's trying to get

1046
00:48:30,999 --> 00:48:28,789
across here is from my understanding in

1047
00:48:33,279 --> 00:48:31,009
the old like maybe back in Greek times

1048
00:48:35,139 --> 00:48:33,289
when someone had an idea it was a

1049
00:48:37,149 --> 00:48:35,149
compliment for someone to take your idea

1050
00:48:38,139 --> 00:48:37,159
and build upon it that was considered a

1051
00:48:41,469 --> 00:48:38,149
good thing mm-hm

1052
00:48:44,019 --> 00:48:41,479
whereas I feel in modern society to a

1053
00:48:46,479 --> 00:48:44,029
particular degree the whole point is

1054
00:48:46,990 --> 00:48:46,489
about let me get my idea let me monetize

1055
00:48:50,770 --> 00:48:47,000
it

1056
00:48:53,950 --> 00:48:50,780
and if you think I'm gonna let you touch

1057
00:48:56,380 --> 00:48:53,960
my idea whether it's adjusted or

1058
00:48:58,300 --> 00:48:56,390
something like that I will sue you out

1059
00:49:00,130 --> 00:48:58,310
of existence or I'll basically trample

1060
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:00,140
you down because I've got my idea I'm

1061
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,540
gonna wield it and I'm not letting it

1062
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:04,400
get changed so I think just throwing

1063
00:49:06,820 --> 00:49:05,450
that on there I think all the things

1064
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,830
that people said are totally legitimate

1065
00:49:11,590 --> 00:49:08,960
points but I I kind of feel like that's

1066
00:49:13,570 --> 00:49:11,600
maybe some part of where this statement

1067
00:49:14,620 --> 00:49:13,580
is coming from and and with that I kind

1068
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:14,630
of agree with where I think maybe

1069
00:49:18,490 --> 00:49:16,310
they're coming from yeah so there is a

1070
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:18,500
bit of a protectionism that that we are

1071
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:21,530
talking about right now and and this

1072
00:49:24,910 --> 00:49:23,360
just reminds me and when we do

1073
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:24,920
communication trainings with senior

1074
00:49:35,380 --> 00:49:28,400
executives there we we tend to use the

1075
00:49:37,390 --> 00:49:35,390
yes but right I hear you yes but and and

1076
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:37,400
a colleague of mine has just got a

1077
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:39,530
brilliant thing around the yes but he

1078
00:49:47,770 --> 00:49:42,050
says every yes but is a declaration of

1079
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:47,780
war think about this it's true and think

1080
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:51,170
about how often we use yes buts every

1081
00:49:55,900 --> 00:49:53,390
single yes but is a declaration of war

1082
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:55,910
all right let's just go let's just go to

1083
00:50:00,580 --> 00:49:57,530
the next poll the next poll basically

1084
00:50:03,220 --> 00:50:00,590
says incorporate all existing evidence

1085
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:03,230
without excluding inconvenient outliers

1086
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,289
yeah sorry um

1087
00:50:19,319 --> 00:50:17,920
this is bad sorry I haven't thought

1088
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,329
about this so the the question is

1089
00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:21,520
incorporate all exploded statement is

1090
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:23,440
incorporate all existing evidence

1091
00:50:30,890 --> 00:50:26,559
without excluding inconvenient outliers

1092
00:50:40,890 --> 00:50:30,900
so this is not just hiding some of the

1093
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:40,900
stuff yeah so so we have we have a

1094
00:50:47,870 --> 00:50:44,160
couple of people basically who's who are

1095
00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:47,880
who are still in agreement with with 64%

1096
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,280
which is okay just just out of out of

1097
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:53,440
time and timing issues I'm just I'm just

1098
00:50:59,240 --> 00:50:54,880
running through the next one here just

1099
00:51:02,160 --> 00:50:59,250
before you do justjust wig anecdote we

1100
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:02,170
written a book called margins of reality

1101
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:04,720
and my colleague and I could great deal

1102
00:51:10,799 --> 00:51:06,910
of difficulty figuring out how to end it

1103
00:51:12,690 --> 00:51:10,809
and there was one aspect of it that we

1104
00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:12,700
wanted to end up saying something like

1105
00:51:18,779 --> 00:51:16,049
everything in this book may be wrong but

1106
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:18,789
instead we told this story about this

1107
00:51:25,049 --> 00:51:22,089
king who sent his wise men out to come

1108
00:51:28,019 --> 00:51:25,059
back and summarize all the wisdom of the

1109
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:28,029
world in one word and it took them a

1110
00:51:32,849 --> 00:51:30,700
long time but they finally returned and

1111
00:51:39,299 --> 00:51:32,859
the King said well you know what have

1112
00:51:42,269 --> 00:51:39,309
you got and they said perhaps for very

1113
00:51:43,950 --> 00:51:42,279
good no it's true indeed yeah absolutely

1114
00:51:45,870 --> 00:51:43,960
sorry and we have we have already I

1115
00:51:49,079 --> 00:51:45,880
think I've already activated in the new

1116
00:51:51,390 --> 00:51:49,089
one the new one said except anomalies

1117
00:51:55,349 --> 00:51:51,400
got it right except anomalies as

1118
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:55,359
indicative current limitations on on

1119
00:52:01,880 --> 00:51:58,240
hours on our understanding as opposed to

1120
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:01,890
reasons for this missile of anomalies I

1121
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:05,980
think we have a pretty strong explicit

1122
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:09,839
voting there as well keep on moving

1123
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:13,049
there is a next one which basically says

1124
00:52:20,620 --> 00:52:16,089
don't contradict existing theories

1125
00:52:26,860 --> 00:52:22,720
oh sorry I should switch on the results

1126
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:26,870
that you see it oh here is something

1127
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:31,490
happening Oh a lot of movements you

1128
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:34,250
can't see it sorry this is like oh you

1129
00:52:39,610 --> 00:52:35,810
could see the boss this is helpful if I

1130
00:52:44,650 --> 00:52:39,620
just put this all right here this is

1131
00:52:51,190 --> 00:52:44,660
this is right so this is this is very

1132
00:52:52,690 --> 00:52:51,200
indifferent here right so so so we have

1133
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:52,700
got we have got the challenges here in

1134
00:52:56,380 --> 00:52:54,530
the room who basically support the idea

1135
00:52:59,590 --> 00:52:56,390
and we have got the defenders in the

1136
00:53:02,740 --> 00:52:59,600
room I think one of the problems with

1137
00:53:04,330 --> 00:53:02,750
this question is what does significant

1138
00:53:06,910 --> 00:53:04,340
mean in this context

1139
00:53:10,210 --> 00:53:06,920
okay there could be the case yeah

1140
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:10,220
absolutely so I think it's it's an

1141
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:13,310
interesting thing yeah what kind of

1142
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,880
theories you're talking about yeah I I

1143
00:53:20,590 --> 00:53:19,040
mean I can't tell because I haven't come

1144
00:53:22,780 --> 00:53:20,600
up with these questions but but this is

1145
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:22,790
all with these statements but well but I

1146
00:53:27,610 --> 00:53:24,650
mean you know the theory could be you

1147
00:53:29,590 --> 00:53:27,620
know some racist nonsense or it could be

1148
00:53:32,020 --> 00:53:29,600
something that's scientifically sound

1149
00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:32,030
yeah I think I don't think we can assume

1150
00:53:35,950 --> 00:53:33,590
that we're dealing with something that

1151
00:53:38,770 --> 00:53:35,960
is carefully thought out or

1152
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:38,780
evidence-based necessarily I think this

1153
00:53:42,940 --> 00:53:40,850
is a very good point because we start

1154
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:42,950
with base assumptions right I'm picking

1155
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:44,930
up on your word of assumption here that

1156
00:53:48,820 --> 00:53:47,090
we what is our base assumption if we

1157
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:48,830
meet someone what is the base assumption

1158
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:50,330
if we actually look at some scientific

1159
00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:52,610
reports do we trust that person to which

1160
00:53:56,140 --> 00:53:54,620
roster that is correct or are we more

1161
00:53:59,650 --> 00:53:56,150
skeptical about it I think this is an

1162
00:54:01,870 --> 00:53:59,660
important thing so let's just let's just

1163
00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:01,880
keep on running here I think that should

1164
00:54:07,060 --> 00:54:04,190
be a very easy one interdisciplinary

1165
00:54:09,370 --> 00:54:07,070
collaboration we've been talking about

1166
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:09,380
this we've been saying that conceal

1167
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:10,970
Ian's is basically based around that I

1168
00:54:21,990 --> 00:54:18,840
good

1169
00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:22,000
I think this next one might be

1170
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:26,350
interesting it says integrating science

1171
00:54:30,990 --> 00:54:29,320
technology and humanities with all the

1172
00:54:34,050 --> 00:54:31,000
other related sciences

1173
00:54:40,330 --> 00:54:34,060
I think the particular tension is around

1174
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:42,700
I am going to refuse to answer this

1175
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:45,770
question because it it broke my brain to

1176
00:54:50,860 --> 00:54:47,690
think about integrating science with all

1177
00:54:53,140 --> 00:54:50,870
other sciences yeah there there there is

1178
00:54:57,250 --> 00:54:53,150
a closed loop there is a closed loop

1179
00:55:03,280 --> 00:54:57,260
here this is just for its good yeah for

1180
00:55:05,380 --> 00:55:03,290
all of the IT guys amongst us this is

1181
00:55:08,020 --> 00:55:05,390
this is a nice one here let's let's go

1182
00:55:11,620 --> 00:55:08,030
for that one combined subjective and

1183
00:55:13,210 --> 00:55:11,630
objective measures of consciousness so

1184
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:13,220
this is interesting because I have got

1185
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:15,970
no idea what you will

1186
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,370
alright so most of you agree there is

1187
00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:21,440
there is one disagreement one strong

1188
00:55:28,420 --> 00:55:23,240
disagreement fully or probably even more

1189
00:55:30,430 --> 00:55:28,430
it's getting less can I have can I mean

1190
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:30,440
you don't need to if you if you are not

1191
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:32,090
feeling comfortable but it's an open

1192
00:55:36,850 --> 00:55:34,310
question is there someone willing who

1193
00:55:39,460 --> 00:55:36,860
has voted against that just to sort of

1194
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:39,470
say why why you've voted against it just

1195
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:40,880
in case you want to you don't have to

1196
00:55:48,690 --> 00:55:43,490
disclose yourself all right okay fair

1197
00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:51,359
I'm not sure what it means to combine

1198
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:53,380
subjective and objective but then I

1199
00:55:59,310 --> 00:55:56,650
would also argue that I would I would I

1200
00:56:00,990 --> 00:55:59,320
would enjoy a debate on the nature of

1201
00:56:06,060 --> 00:56:01,000
how you draw the line between subjective

1202
00:56:06,690 --> 00:56:06,070
and objective yeah yeah I think that's

1203
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:06,700
that's true

1204
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:10,000
so I answer that one with a one because

1205
00:56:16,410 --> 00:56:12,609
in my world there is no such thing as

1206
00:56:17,579 --> 00:56:16,420
objectivity yeah so again we have got

1207
00:56:19,319 --> 00:56:17,589
different worldviews different

1208
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:19,329
perspectives I think you say it's

1209
00:56:23,490 --> 00:56:21,250
difficult to basically draw a border

1210
00:56:25,410 --> 00:56:23,500
between them you say in your world there

1211
00:56:28,829 --> 00:56:25,420
isn't there is an object to objectivity

1212
00:56:30,540 --> 00:56:28,839
at all right so again this is also

1213
00:56:32,099 --> 00:56:30,550
something which we need to take into

1214
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:32,109
account when we talk about it

1215
00:56:37,050 --> 00:56:34,510
could I make a comment on that one I

1216
00:56:39,180 --> 00:56:37,060
think the word combine is confusing and

1217
00:56:42,089 --> 00:56:39,190
it implies the question implies a

1218
00:56:45,420 --> 00:56:42,099
duality mm-hmm it implies it's either/or

1219
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:45,430
mm-hmm but I think a more productive

1220
00:56:51,150 --> 00:56:48,490
approach is to take a complimentary one

1221
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:51,160
where you say the subjective perspective

1222
00:56:55,770 --> 00:56:54,190
and an objective perspective or just two

1223
00:56:58,079 --> 00:56:55,780
different ways of looking at the same

1224
00:57:01,500 --> 00:56:58,089
thing yes so one doesn't have to combine

1225
00:57:06,829 --> 00:57:01,510
them one simply has to recognize that

1226
00:57:08,940 --> 00:57:06,839
they are two valid approaches okay yeah

1227
00:57:12,510 --> 00:57:08,950
do you want to say something what you

1228
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:12,520
just ah okay oh I thought you wouldn't

1229
00:57:17,849 --> 00:57:15,520
want to take it away from her

1230
00:57:23,069 --> 00:57:17,859
good so the next one which we have got

1231
00:57:24,930 --> 00:57:23,079
here sass I was just going to give you

1232
00:57:27,150 --> 00:57:24,940
an example the last one that I just

1233
00:57:29,460 --> 00:57:27,160
happen to think about so you're a doctor

1234
00:57:31,770 --> 00:57:29,470
maybe and you've got all your

1235
00:57:33,780 --> 00:57:31,780
instruments you're checking with the

1236
00:57:35,550 --> 00:57:33,790
patient you know you you know the

1237
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:35,560
information about their blood or what

1238
00:57:39,390 --> 00:57:37,810
the x-rays show and so on but wouldn't

1239
00:57:41,430 --> 00:57:39,400
you want to ask them how they feel

1240
00:57:43,050 --> 00:57:41,440
subjectively I mean I think that's an

1241
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:43,060
example of the way too you would want to

1242
00:57:50,050 --> 00:57:45,280
combine subjective and objective types

1243
00:57:57,490 --> 00:57:54,330
yeah leverage both yeah yeah yeah yeah

1244
00:57:59,140 --> 00:57:57,500
yeah all right

1245
00:58:01,320 --> 00:57:59,150
good the next one which we've got here

1246
00:58:03,310 --> 00:58:01,330
on the list is collaborate and drive

1247
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:03,320
consilience together with other

1248
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,510
organizations I mean there is just

1249
00:58:09,790 --> 00:58:07,520
another organization named here but but

1250
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:09,800
is it is it something which we regard as

1251
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:12,650
valuable to not just stay within the sse

1252
00:58:15,970 --> 00:58:14,330
but to draw conclusions and consilience

1253
00:58:19,260 --> 00:58:15,980
across different organizations is the

1254
00:58:22,750 --> 00:58:19,270
question and I think we have got a

1255
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:22,760
pretty strong vote in in the positive

1256
00:58:30,550 --> 00:58:26,210
direction all right still changing

1257
00:58:35,890 --> 00:58:30,560
slightly all right let me make a comment

1258
00:58:37,980 --> 00:58:35,900
on that one I am really delighted by the

1259
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:37,990
fact that we have three female

1260
00:58:43,110 --> 00:58:40,880
commentators sitting up here and I find

1261
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:43,120
myself thinking how I you know there is

1262
00:58:48,670 --> 00:58:46,010
predominantly academia it tends to be

1263
00:58:52,090 --> 00:58:48,680
predominantly patriarchal and masculine

1264
00:58:54,910 --> 00:58:52,100
and as such there is a tendency for it

1265
00:58:57,850 --> 00:58:54,920
to become very territorial mm-hmm

1266
00:58:59,800 --> 00:58:57,860
and very protective of its own field of

1267
00:59:02,740 --> 00:58:59,810
its own work and you know its own

1268
00:59:05,710 --> 00:59:02,750
publications its own whatever and yet I

1269
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:05,720
find you know this is a big hello for an

1270
00:59:10,450 --> 00:59:07,730
example we haven't been living together

1271
00:59:14,890 --> 00:59:10,460
long enough but I think there's a

1272
00:59:18,100 --> 00:59:14,900
tendency for women to be more inclined

1273
00:59:26,980 --> 00:59:18,110
to collaborate to to share information

1274
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:26,990
or to cross those boundaries yeah is

1275
00:59:32,590 --> 00:59:30,650
that the same in business business is

1276
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:32,600
absolutely a patriarchal community I'm

1277
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:34,370
absolutely the oddball and pretty much

1278
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:37,130
every meeting I go to but I think the

1279
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:40,880
the one thing that I find is for myself

1280
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:43,370
and my female counterparts we're far

1281
00:59:49,330 --> 00:59:46,730
more willing to say we don't know please

1282
00:59:51,340 --> 00:59:49,340
help mmm-hmm then my male counterparts

1283
00:59:53,620 --> 00:59:51,350
and I think that's something that with

1284
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:53,630
more women in the business place

1285
00:59:58,210 --> 00:59:55,730
is a great advantage for where we are

1286
00:59:59,860 --> 00:59:58,220
today this just reminds me of another

1287
01:00:02,500 --> 00:59:59,870
concept which we often teach when we

1288
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:02,510
when we do executive classes and that's

1289
01:00:07,900 --> 01:00:03,920
the difference between being an

1290
01:00:10,359 --> 01:00:07,910
and Alona Noah is someone who actually

1291
01:00:12,670 --> 01:00:10,369
knows and the learner is someone who

1292
01:00:15,130 --> 01:00:12,680
actually is interested in learning more

1293
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:15,140
things and I think we have the tendency

1294
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:16,930
naturally and I'm talking about myself

1295
01:00:22,809 --> 01:00:21,170
at least to be to be in Noah instead of

1296
01:00:25,650 --> 01:00:22,819
a learner and it takes it takes a real

1297
01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:25,660
effort to switch the mindset to into a

1298
01:00:32,620 --> 01:00:30,440
learners attitude sometimes right so let

1299
01:00:35,260 --> 01:00:32,630
me just go through the next one which we

1300
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:35,270
have here at hand information should be

1301
01:00:42,150 --> 01:00:38,450
released in common terms so the general

1302
01:00:44,319 --> 01:00:42,160
public can benefit from consilience

1303
01:00:46,450 --> 01:00:44,329
that's basically what we have been

1304
01:00:48,339 --> 01:00:46,460
talking about right yeah I say it one

1305
01:00:51,309 --> 01:00:48,349
more time for you information should be

1306
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:51,319
released in common terms so the general

1307
01:00:59,650 --> 01:00:57,410
public can benefit from consilience and

1308
01:01:03,010 --> 01:00:59,660
this is interesting because we have we

1309
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:03,020
have got 70% currently around there with

1310
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:06,410
with 35 38 votes so this is this is

1311
01:01:11,650 --> 01:01:09,440
strong because this is a question which

1312
01:01:13,870 --> 01:01:11,660
basically picks up what we had discussed

1313
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:13,880
before around language right this is

1314
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:16,010
really important and it's it's good that

1315
01:01:20,049 --> 01:01:17,119
we actually see this here

1316
01:01:23,799 --> 01:01:20,059
in the votes as well I'm launching the

1317
01:01:26,589 --> 01:01:23,809
next vote which says productive use of

1318
01:01:31,780 --> 01:01:26,599
metaphor in communication and scientific

1319
01:01:33,549 --> 01:01:31,790
principles who does that come from yeah

1320
01:01:36,789 --> 01:01:33,559
you heard that before right I think I

1321
01:01:38,980 --> 01:01:36,799
remember that was from you so so if you

1322
01:01:46,809 --> 01:01:38,990
if you want to disagree with Brander do

1323
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:46,819
it now right okay I'm going to going to

1324
01:01:54,490 --> 01:01:51,170
go to the next one it says data must be

1325
01:01:57,700 --> 01:01:54,500
shared in a common forum without without

1326
01:02:08,170 --> 01:01:57,710
the profit motive without a profit

1327
01:02:08,180 --> 01:02:14,170
well this is interesting

1328
01:02:18,730 --> 01:02:16,630
so there's there seems to be there seems

1329
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:18,740
to be it's not it's not that clear right

1330
01:02:24,339 --> 01:02:20,930
it's where does this uncertainty come

1331
01:02:28,029 --> 01:02:24,349
from here so here's a statement where

1332
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:28,039
the uncertainty may come from yeah I

1333
01:02:33,250 --> 01:02:30,079
think this conflates to principles one

1334
01:02:34,750 --> 01:02:33,260
is that the ethos of science is that it

1335
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:34,760
knowledge should be shared without

1336
01:02:40,299 --> 01:02:38,270
interest but there's also intellectual

1337
01:02:42,700 --> 01:02:40,309
property so there are two complete

1338
01:02:46,089 --> 01:02:42,710
competing values but in terms of pure

1339
01:02:49,359 --> 01:02:46,099
science you're supposed to share okay

1340
01:02:50,829 --> 01:02:49,369
got that yeah yeah all right the next

1341
01:02:53,279 --> 01:02:50,839
one we've got and we aren't we are on

1342
01:02:56,650 --> 01:02:53,289
the on the finishing line above that

1343
01:02:58,839 --> 01:02:56,660
academia should be a large part of this

1344
01:03:11,920 --> 01:02:58,849
effort particularly with the inquisitive

1345
01:03:15,849 --> 01:03:13,839
this is a good question I don't know

1346
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:15,859
where where academia starts I sometimes

1347
01:03:22,029 --> 01:03:17,690
felt that when my kids were small they

1348
01:03:25,529 --> 01:03:22,039
were more clever than I was so but we

1349
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:25,539
have a we have a sort of relatively

1350
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:29,450
strong boat there again I'm just running

1351
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:30,890
through this because I know that we have

1352
01:03:37,660 --> 01:03:34,609
we've got you there all R&D needs to be

1353
01:03:40,269 --> 01:03:37,670
an interdisciplinary approach in order

1354
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:40,279
to make significant discoveries and

1355
01:03:48,130 --> 01:03:43,130
accomplishments all R&D needs to be an

1356
01:03:53,069 --> 01:03:48,140
interdisciplinary approach oh yeah we

1357
01:03:57,789 --> 01:03:53,079
also got oh oh look at that there is

1358
01:04:01,390 --> 01:03:57,799
there is disagreement here so it's it's

1359
01:04:05,289 --> 01:04:01,400
probably because of the word all yeah I

1360
01:04:08,470 --> 01:04:05,299
was guessing so right so it's I mean

1361
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:08,480
this is like it's the wording and again

1362
01:04:11,529 --> 01:04:11,210
we need to be careful but me language

1363
01:04:16,180 --> 01:04:11,539
matters

1364
01:04:18,819 --> 01:04:16,190
really individual words which could

1365
01:04:21,660 --> 01:04:18,829
actually make or break it right so only

1366
01:04:30,789 --> 01:04:26,849
flow plurality how do you pronounce that

1367
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:30,799
yeah plurality of methods and approaches

1368
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:41,599
those that question whoever whoever

1369
01:04:49,450 --> 01:04:43,680
raised that whoever brought that

1370
01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:49,460
statement up leave the room that damned

1371
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:54,480
come on I mean awful all right next one

1372
01:04:58,220 --> 01:04:55,170
last one

1373
01:05:03,289 --> 01:04:58,230
any model point of view world view is an

1374
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:03,299
interpretation Wow

1375
01:05:09,290 --> 01:05:14,370
strong very strong

1376
01:05:22,650 --> 01:05:18,000
all right I'd like to thank you for that

1377
01:05:24,750 --> 01:05:22,660
for that part of the session and I would

1378
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:24,760
just want to dedicate the last couple of

1379
01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:27,130
minutes to really draw conclusions on

1380
01:05:31,770 --> 01:05:30,220
what the SS II role would actually be in

1381
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:31,780
that context of what we have just

1382
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:36,610
discussed and what I have done is or

1383
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:38,650
what we have done collectively basically

1384
01:05:46,020 --> 01:05:41,440
we have put together a couple of

1385
01:05:48,180 --> 01:05:46,030
questions around the the the mission

1386
01:05:51,110 --> 01:05:48,190
statement of the SSE if you like right

1387
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:51,120
so the first one which we would want to

1388
01:05:56,940 --> 01:05:53,650
activate as a poll which which says

1389
01:05:59,190 --> 01:05:56,950
should the SS II contribute to define

1390
01:06:02,490 --> 01:05:59,200
the ring fence for scientifically

1391
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:02,500
plausible models of reality should the

1392
01:06:06,990 --> 01:06:04,930
SSE contribute to define the ring fence

1393
01:06:12,090 --> 01:06:07,000
for scientifically plausible models of

1394
01:06:15,060 --> 01:06:12,100
reality we have got a we've got an 88%

1395
01:06:18,860 --> 01:06:15,070
agreement to that 91% agreement at that

1396
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:18,870
very moment now we are down to 88

1397
01:06:24,420 --> 01:06:22,240
all right so a big majority says that

1398
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:24,430
that the SSE should contribute to

1399
01:06:28,740 --> 01:06:26,010
developing that ring fence

1400
01:06:31,740 --> 01:06:28,750
can I just again this is just on a

1401
01:06:33,930 --> 01:06:31,750
voluntary basis but would those people

1402
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:33,940
who have disagreed to that would you

1403
01:06:38,610 --> 01:06:36,010
probably give a reason why you disagreed

1404
01:06:40,050 --> 01:06:38,620
if there is anyone wanting to share this

1405
01:06:50,609 --> 01:06:40,060
okay we have an ELISA here could you

1406
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:53,849
being on the wrong end of scientific

1407
01:06:59,779 --> 01:06:56,410
gatekeeping for some time I'm

1408
01:07:04,859 --> 01:06:59,789
disinclined to impose that on others

1409
01:07:08,039 --> 01:07:04,869
okay okay good thank you

1410
01:07:09,690 --> 01:07:08,049
wait we've got another one yep I didn't

1411
01:07:10,380 --> 01:07:09,700
vote I haven't a clue what you mean by

1412
01:07:15,569 --> 01:07:10,390
ring-fence

1413
01:07:17,759 --> 01:07:15,579
all right okay yeah

1414
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:17,769
ring ring fence in terms of defining the

1415
01:07:23,279 --> 01:07:20,650
area in which the more I take your point

1416
01:07:26,309 --> 01:07:23,289
I take your point so that's good the the

1417
01:07:27,749 --> 01:07:26,319
next one is also referring to the ring

1418
01:07:30,959 --> 01:07:27,759
fencing so you might not vote there

1419
01:07:32,700 --> 01:07:30,969
either but it basically says it's not

1420
01:07:35,819 --> 01:07:32,710
just help to define it but the should

1421
01:07:39,059 --> 01:07:35,829
the SS e be a custodian of the ring

1422
01:07:45,839 --> 01:07:39,069
fence for all scientific be plausible

1423
01:07:47,849 --> 01:07:45,849
models of reality no no so there is no

1424
01:07:49,529 --> 01:07:47,859
ambition in the room that the sse should

1425
01:07:53,789 --> 01:07:49,539
be the custodian you will want to

1426
01:07:55,170 --> 01:07:53,799
contribute to it a few years okay but

1427
01:07:56,789 --> 01:07:55,180
there is you see there is a difference

1428
01:07:59,969 --> 01:07:56,799
there is a there is a will within this

1429
01:08:06,180 --> 01:07:59,979
room to contribute but it's not to be

1430
01:08:14,579 --> 01:08:06,190
regarded as the custodian yeah sorry say

1431
01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:14,589
there's all oh the old okay I got you so

1432
01:08:20,370 --> 01:08:17,049
whether they all for all yeah is it is

1433
01:08:22,919 --> 01:08:20,380
it the point is it the all for my point

1434
01:08:26,970 --> 01:08:22,929
of view it which is a lay point of view

1435
01:08:34,010 --> 01:08:26,980
not being a scientist but I think that

1436
01:08:37,470 --> 01:08:34,020
reality is very movable it's very

1437
01:08:42,660 --> 01:08:37,480
amorphous and I don't know if there is

1438
01:08:46,620 --> 01:08:42,670
any plausible model of reality at all I

1439
01:08:49,109 --> 01:08:46,630
mean it's very confusing to me I think

1440
01:08:52,620 --> 01:08:49,119
reality is incredibly subjective and

1441
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:52,630
sometimes several people might sort of

1442
01:08:58,430 --> 01:08:55,330
agree on a reality and then it might

1443
01:09:01,260 --> 01:08:58,440
become the prevailing model but that

1444
01:09:03,269 --> 01:09:01,270
doesn't mean much in the long run I'm

1445
01:09:04,170 --> 01:09:03,279
sorry no it's it's fine it's fine

1446
01:09:09,270 --> 01:09:04,180
we've got another

1447
01:09:11,550 --> 01:09:09,280
one year it's a little bit aside but I

1448
01:09:13,830 --> 01:09:11,560
want to follow up on that but in that

1449
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,840
last comment which started with I'm not

1450
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:16,000
a scientist and then proceeded to

1451
01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:18,310
describe something that was remarkably

1452
01:09:24,060 --> 01:09:22,630
scientifically minded so you know there

1453
01:09:26,190 --> 01:09:24,070
is there's an interesting question that

1454
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:26,200
comes up whether or not a scientist is

1455
01:09:29,490 --> 01:09:27,730
somebody with a degree in a scientific

1456
01:09:33,090 --> 01:09:29,500
discipline whether somebody is a

1457
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:33,100
scientist by nature and one thing that

1458
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:34,570
we ought to think about in this in this

1459
01:09:41,220 --> 01:09:37,330
society and by society I'd literally

1460
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:41,230
mean SSE Society is where we're gonna

1461
01:09:46,950 --> 01:09:43,690
define that role who we consider to be

1462
01:09:49,050 --> 01:09:46,960
scientists I obviously in bringing up

1463
01:09:50,820 --> 01:09:49,060
the point would argue that anybody who's

1464
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:50,830
scientifically minded who thinks that

1465
01:09:56,730 --> 01:09:53,050
way and I would also probably argue that

1466
01:09:58,470 --> 01:09:56,740
it's a lot of people probably should be

1467
01:10:02,030 --> 01:09:58,480
considered that way regardless of what

1468
01:10:11,490 --> 01:10:02,040
their their specific credentials are

1469
01:10:14,130 --> 01:10:11,500
thank you yeah so raises I think a very

1470
01:10:16,020 --> 01:10:14,140
profound point all right that I says he

1471
01:10:19,050 --> 01:10:16,030
should consider and I think there is a

1472
01:10:22,530 --> 01:10:19,060
broad misunderstanding of the difference

1473
01:10:23,220 --> 01:10:22,540
between science and the scientific

1474
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:23,230
method

1475
01:10:28,380 --> 01:10:25,210
there's a lot of people who think that

1476
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:28,390
science is a body of knowledge that is

1477
01:10:38,490 --> 01:10:34,570
you know carved in stone rather than a

1478
01:10:40,830 --> 01:10:38,500
process of acquiring knowledge and in

1479
01:10:43,470 --> 01:10:40,840
the former case there are people who

1480
01:10:46,470 --> 01:10:43,480
claim they have credentials I am a

1481
01:10:49,140 --> 01:10:46,480
scientist I have a specialization the

1482
01:10:52,410 --> 01:10:49,150
training on the other hand it's I am

1483
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:52,420
somebody who you were talking about the

1484
01:11:00,450 --> 01:10:57,760
learners and the no and it is the and I

1485
01:11:03,660 --> 01:11:00,460
think that distinction separates science

1486
01:11:06,210 --> 01:11:03,670
from scientism yes or science is an

1487
01:11:08,970 --> 01:11:06,220
intellectual pursuit versus science as a

1488
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:08,980
body of knowledge that kind of gets

1489
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:10,810
rammed down everybody's throat I see

1490
01:11:14,340 --> 01:11:12,310
what you mean yeah it makes sense yeah

1491
01:11:16,030 --> 01:11:14,350
thank you for the comment you just hold

1492
01:11:17,950 --> 01:11:16,040
it or do you want to say something okay

1493
01:11:21,390 --> 01:11:17,960
I'm just in the middle all right yeah

1494
01:11:28,410 --> 01:11:21,400
sorry I mean someone needed to be there

1495
01:11:32,710 --> 01:11:30,670
could you just hold the mic a bit closer

1496
01:11:34,180 --> 01:11:32,720
to you just in the real world things get

1497
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:34,190
a little bit trickier than this I mean I

1498
01:11:41,380 --> 01:11:36,530
was I spent 10 years as the editor of

1499
01:11:43,330 --> 01:11:41,390
JSC and it's one thing to give a venue

1500
01:11:46,300 --> 01:11:43,340
for discussion of ideas that that would

1501
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:46,310
challenge the current paradigms or as

1502
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:48,290
we've been discussing on the other hand

1503
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:50,210
we got some real and we've got some real

1504
01:11:55,390 --> 01:11:53,510
junk that came in that is this purely

1505
01:11:59,020 --> 01:11:55,400
nonsense stuff I mean there's no way to

1506
01:12:00,850 --> 01:11:59,030
justify it and in fact perhaps so New

1507
01:12:04,270 --> 01:12:00,860
York Dobyns remembers one example of

1508
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:04,280
this meeting where the the paper of the

1509
01:12:08,220 --> 01:12:05,690
pay's prolific paper was given by

1510
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:08,230
someone who was spinning the top around

1511
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:10,850
spinning a top around around and let's

1512
01:12:14,260 --> 01:12:12,320
demonstrate how that would just fly off

1513
01:12:15,940 --> 01:12:14,270
radially but it was in fact if you've

1514
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:15,950
got something spinning around and you

1515
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:17,290
cut the string and go off tangentially

1516
01:12:21,670 --> 01:12:19,730
everybody knows that it's something you

1517
01:12:23,410 --> 01:12:21,680
got up the stage and you proved proof

1518
01:12:25,780 --> 01:12:23,420
with your hand yo-yo or whatever you had

1519
01:12:28,180 --> 01:12:25,790
in your hands you know my point is that

1520
01:12:30,100 --> 01:12:28,190
it's one thing to consider ideas that

1521
01:12:33,490 --> 01:12:30,110
come from someone that at least knows

1522
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,500
what they're talking about but I have a

1523
01:12:37,510 --> 01:12:35,600
new idea being put forward by someone

1524
01:12:38,980 --> 01:12:37,520
who doesn't know the existing physics

1525
01:12:40,810 --> 01:12:38,990
you know can be a total waste of time

1526
01:12:42,130 --> 01:12:40,820
because you have to know what is it

1527
01:12:43,300 --> 01:12:42,140
you're rejecting be confident in that

1528
01:12:44,980 --> 01:12:43,310
before you expect other people to

1529
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:44,990
believe something that that this was

1530
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:47,930
totally nonsense probably yeah can't

1531
01:12:58,450 --> 01:12:55,250
remember that though yeah yeah yeah so

1532
01:13:02,200 --> 01:12:58,460
we have another one over here well as a

1533
01:13:05,710 --> 01:13:02,210
start as a start to the communication

1534
01:13:08,050 --> 01:13:05,720
that we've been speaking of there's been

1535
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:08,060
like five individuals here during the

1536
01:13:14,050 --> 01:13:10,970
course of today who have referenced

1537
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:14,060
their own work their own web pages their

1538
01:13:17,710 --> 01:13:16,850
own collaborations how do we get in

1539
01:13:19,810 --> 01:13:17,720
touch with them

1540
01:13:24,130 --> 01:13:19,820
I mean is there going to be a list

1541
01:13:25,989 --> 01:13:24,140
posted I mean how do we communicate just

1542
01:13:27,489 --> 01:13:25,999
within our own group here

1543
01:13:28,569 --> 01:13:27,499
yeah it's an interesting it's an

1544
01:13:29,739 --> 01:13:28,579
interesting question I don't know

1545
01:13:31,629 --> 01:13:29,749
whether there are structures I mean I'm

1546
01:13:33,339 --> 01:13:31,639
totally new to the organization I don't

1547
01:13:35,049 --> 01:13:33,349
know whether you have kept the means

1548
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:35,059
established already but probably we

1549
01:13:40,779 --> 01:13:38,210
should in the future so there is a there

1550
01:13:44,979 --> 01:13:40,789
is a last there is a last yes-or-no

1551
01:13:48,100 --> 01:13:44,989
question here and then so should the SS

1552
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:48,110
II officially endorse certain models of

1553
01:13:56,290 --> 01:13:52,249
reality should the SSE officially

1554
01:13:57,729 --> 01:13:56,300
endorse certain models of reality so we

1555
01:14:04,589 --> 01:13:57,739
have got it so far

1556
01:14:13,839 --> 01:14:10,140
the last three votes for today are

1557
01:14:17,979 --> 01:14:13,849
around the mission statement of the SSE

1558
01:14:19,839 --> 01:14:17,989
and I have I've discussed this with the

1559
01:14:22,089 --> 01:14:19,849
with the program committee and the and

1560
01:14:25,209 --> 01:14:22,099
and was bill in particular around what

1561
01:14:28,209 --> 01:14:25,219
the mission statement actually is and

1562
01:14:30,489 --> 01:14:28,219
that what that is the baseline that is

1563
01:14:33,370 --> 01:14:30,499
what is currently assumed to be the

1564
01:14:35,739 --> 01:14:33,380
mission statement it says the Society

1565
01:14:38,739 --> 01:14:35,749
for scientific exploration SSE provides

1566
01:14:40,709 --> 01:14:38,749
a critical forum for sharing original

1567
01:14:44,589 --> 01:14:40,719
research into anomalies and

1568
01:14:46,450 --> 01:14:44,599
unconventional topics so in how far do

1569
01:14:52,270 --> 01:14:46,460
you basically buy into this and how far

1570
01:14:56,020 --> 01:14:52,280
do you agree to that okay so we've got a

1571
01:14:58,870 --> 01:14:56,030
pretty strong a pretty strong support of

1572
01:15:02,140 --> 01:14:58,880
that it seems that's good

1573
01:15:04,930 --> 01:15:02,150
so now take that statement and now we

1574
01:15:07,029 --> 01:15:04,940
have added something so that remains the

1575
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:07,039
same so we are not suggesting that we

1576
01:15:12,219 --> 01:15:09,050
take anything away from what you have

1577
01:15:16,509 --> 01:15:12,229
done before but we are now adding to

1578
01:15:20,229 --> 01:15:16,519
that and what we add basically is we add

1579
01:15:22,989 --> 01:15:20,239
the part that we draw relevant

1580
01:15:25,719 --> 01:15:22,999
conclusions from converging evidence so

1581
01:15:28,719 --> 01:15:25,729
we are not just discussing or providing

1582
01:15:30,549 --> 01:15:28,729
a critical forum but we are now we could

1583
01:15:31,469 --> 01:15:30,559
also draw relevant conclusions from

1584
01:15:35,069 --> 01:15:31,479
converging evidence

1585
01:15:39,090 --> 01:15:35,079
what is the one single word for that

1586
01:15:40,290 --> 01:15:39,100
consilience right but as consilience

1587
01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:40,300
is not really something that people

1588
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:45,760
understand so okay this is interesting

1589
01:15:52,170 --> 01:15:48,130
so there seems to be there seems to be a

1590
01:15:54,590 --> 01:15:52,180
positive attitude to to also go for this

1591
01:15:58,020 --> 01:15:54,600
consilience aspect in the future right

1592
01:16:01,470 --> 01:15:58,030
all right so let me let me know even

1593
01:16:05,070 --> 01:16:01,480
stretch you a bit further so all of what

1594
01:16:07,260 --> 01:16:05,080
is given there remains there right so it

1595
01:16:08,610 --> 01:16:07,270
is about a critical forum for sharing

1596
01:16:10,620 --> 01:16:08,620
information as well as driving

1597
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:10,630
consolidate consilience so that stays

1598
01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:13,360
there and we are just adding a last

1599
01:16:20,580 --> 01:16:18,040
thing to that which basically says so

1600
01:16:24,090 --> 01:16:20,590
all of what we've got and communicate

1601
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:24,100
those those insights in common terms to

1602
01:16:28,140 --> 01:16:25,840
the general public so we are now adding

1603
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:28,150
the communication part we had the

1604
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:30,610
sharing we were drawing the conclusions

1605
01:16:41,180 --> 01:16:39,250
but now we actively communicate here we

1606
01:16:45,510 --> 01:16:41,190
are so we have again a relatively

1607
01:16:47,550 --> 01:16:45,520
positive notion here as well so I think

1608
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:47,560
this is an interesting insight at least

1609
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:49,690
from my point of view because it seems

1610
01:16:54,270 --> 01:16:52,330
that we that there is a broad majority

1611
01:16:57,090 --> 01:16:54,280
in the room who basically said that that

1612
01:16:59,430 --> 01:16:57,100
might be a better or a future statement

1613
01:17:01,500 --> 01:16:59,440
as a mission statement for the SSE and

1614
01:17:03,380 --> 01:17:01,510
we therefore recognize that we would

1615
01:17:06,210 --> 01:17:03,390
acknowledge the fact that we share

1616
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:06,220
information around research data and we

1617
01:17:10,530 --> 01:17:07,810
would critically review this that is

1618
01:17:12,690 --> 01:17:10,540
fine but we add two things we add the

1619
01:17:15,900 --> 01:17:12,700
consilience we drive conclusions out of

1620
01:17:17,670 --> 01:17:15,910
that and then we would also publicly

1621
01:17:21,170 --> 01:17:17,680
communicate these conclusions in the

1622
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:21,180
language which is actually appropriate

1623
01:17:33,740 --> 01:17:31,080
when we did the question about common

1624
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:33,750
language I actually voted against that

1625
01:17:40,380 --> 01:17:37,210
but I can align with this because of the

1626
01:17:42,420 --> 01:17:40,390
term general public within this forum

1627
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:42,430
within this group I think it is totally

1628
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:44,050
appropriate for us to speak in the

1629
01:17:50,010 --> 01:17:46,450
jargon that they're used to in fact I

1630
01:17:52,380 --> 01:17:50,020
think we should however the general

1631
01:17:54,810 --> 01:17:52,390
public doesn't know those terms and it

1632
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:54,820
I'm not saying we water it down but it

1633
01:17:58,500 --> 01:17:56,410
needs to be in terms that a

1634
01:18:00,990 --> 01:17:58,510
non-scientific person a business person

1635
01:18:02,610 --> 01:18:01,000
or a media person can understand so they

1636
01:18:05,220 --> 01:18:02,620
don't misquote us and then it becomes

1637
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:05,230
woman yes I think this is a very very

1638
01:18:10,530 --> 01:18:07,690
good remark yeah absolutely I mean they

1639
01:18:12,330 --> 01:18:10,540
just as a side note I'm you know that

1640
01:18:14,550 --> 01:18:12,340
I'm not a native speaker in English but

1641
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:14,560
we had a distinction between when I was

1642
01:18:19,310 --> 01:18:15,970
working in the UK between British

1643
01:18:21,660 --> 01:18:19,320
English and international English right

1644
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:21,670
sorry

1645
01:18:35,090 --> 01:18:33,130
there is it's coming so again just for

1646
01:18:38,190 --> 01:18:35,100
clarity of language here so the original

1647
01:18:40,770 --> 01:18:38,200
statement is a forum for the sharing of

1648
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:40,780
the research sharing being the relevant

1649
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:43,510
component here then the next piece is

1650
01:18:46,620 --> 01:18:45,040
drawing relevant conclusions now it's

1651
01:18:49,410 --> 01:18:46,630
not clear who's the actor in this part

1652
01:18:50,610 --> 01:18:49,420
are the are the members drawing relevant

1653
01:18:52,650 --> 01:18:50,620
conclusions and presenting their

1654
01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:52,660
conclusions as they present their

1655
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:55,720
research findings or is the society

1656
01:19:00,210 --> 01:18:57,850
itself drawing relevant conclusions and

1657
01:19:03,330 --> 01:19:00,220
communicating those yeah and so and

1658
01:19:04,950 --> 01:19:03,340
again there's this I think it needs to

1659
01:19:07,530 --> 01:19:04,960
be you know really clear because

1660
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:07,540
language is important so yeah no I think

1661
01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:09,370
I think this raises an a very important

1662
01:19:13,860 --> 01:19:10,540
point and I think I would want to give

1663
01:19:15,990 --> 01:19:13,870
this to you Tanya I mean we we talk

1664
01:19:17,730 --> 01:19:16,000
about silos and integration I mean what

1665
01:19:20,730 --> 01:19:17,740
is what is your point of view mark says

1666
01:19:22,230 --> 01:19:20,740
it's it's obviously that is a that is

1667
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:22,240
almost like a separate function there is

1668
01:19:26,010 --> 01:19:24,400
an additional need to pull the

1669
01:19:27,930 --> 01:19:26,020
information together and to then

1670
01:19:30,180 --> 01:19:27,940
formulate it in a way that it is

1671
01:19:33,570 --> 01:19:30,190
appropriate right so how would you react

1672
01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:33,580
to that statement I think actually from

1673
01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:34,960
a business perspective it's irrelevant

1674
01:19:39,020 --> 01:19:37,510
as long as it's communicated in a way

1675
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:39,030
that the public will understand

1676
01:19:45,140 --> 01:19:40,800
and that's probably not the answer that

1677
01:19:46,730 --> 01:19:45,150
you would want to hear and that's

1678
01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:46,740
totally fair

1679
01:19:49,730 --> 01:19:48,450
so we're look we're looking at it from a

1680
01:19:52,190 --> 01:19:49,740
different perspective but if the

1681
01:19:53,690 --> 01:19:52,200
intention is to bring a piece of

1682
01:19:56,480 --> 01:19:53,700
information to the public so that the

1683
01:19:58,580 --> 01:19:56,490
public can have access to it and for the

1684
01:20:00,410 --> 01:19:58,590
betterment of the public then the

1685
01:20:03,140 --> 01:20:00,420
communicator is less important than

1686
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:03,150
what's being communicated yeah so we've

1687
01:20:08,510 --> 01:20:04,650
got we've got Karl here what do you have

1688
01:20:10,670 --> 01:20:08,520
yeah and as was pointed out earlier when

1689
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:10,680
we can when we communicate to the

1690
01:20:14,830 --> 01:20:12,810
general public it's in language that can

1691
01:20:17,450 --> 01:20:14,840
understand but that's not our only

1692
01:20:21,230 --> 01:20:17,460
publication which is common for

1693
01:20:23,330 --> 01:20:21,240
disciplines to have a more general organ

1694
01:20:25,310 --> 01:20:23,340
as well as the main journal yeah and I

1695
01:20:27,470 --> 01:20:25,320
think we probably understand that yeah

1696
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:27,480
York just give give confers to the word

1697
01:20:33,890 --> 01:20:31,410
yet Kirstin so my question is within

1698
01:20:37,790 --> 01:20:33,900
three were the three issues being there

1699
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:37,800
the first is clearly the SSE is SS he is

1700
01:20:45,260 --> 01:20:41,040
that forum and presumably we come here

1701
01:20:48,620 --> 01:20:45,270
to learn about those ideas and draw

1702
01:20:50,390 --> 01:20:48,630
conclusions for ourselves so it seems to

1703
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:50,400
me the SSE has always had a policy of

1704
01:20:57,020 --> 01:20:54,810
not subscribing to anything mm-hmm so we

1705
01:20:59,750 --> 01:20:57,030
come here for that and obviously people

1706
01:21:02,900 --> 01:20:59,760
want to communicate their stories and

1707
01:21:06,710 --> 01:21:02,910
the forum provides that and anyone who

1708
01:21:09,050 --> 01:21:06,720
is interested is welcome to come and so

1709
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:09,060
I think those are all there but it's

1710
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:11,370
just whether or not the society wants to

1711
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:14,930
take a formal position and I think that

1712
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:18,000
ever since its founding has been the

1713
01:21:23,900 --> 01:21:20,730
thing the society has chosen not to do

1714
01:21:27,110 --> 01:21:23,910
because to make sure the forum is free

1715
01:21:29,930 --> 01:21:27,120
and open yeah yeah sorry York you were

1716
01:21:35,319 --> 01:21:29,940
have you got the mic no could you just

1717
01:21:44,390 --> 01:21:39,919
okay a couple of comments first about

1718
01:21:48,620 --> 01:21:44,400
drawing relevant conclusions the the

1719
01:21:51,530 --> 01:21:48,630
ssee does not have a mind it does not

1720
01:21:54,140 --> 01:21:51,540
have an identity it is not a person it

1721
01:21:57,140 --> 01:21:54,150
is an organization anybody drawing

1722
01:22:00,490 --> 01:21:57,150
relevant conclusions within the society

1723
01:22:05,089 --> 01:22:00,500
is presumably a member of the society

1724
01:22:07,700 --> 01:22:05,099
our our individual researchers I think

1725
01:22:09,950 --> 01:22:07,710
pretty much always draw relevant

1726
01:22:12,020 --> 01:22:09,960
conclusions from their own research and

1727
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:12,030
usually publish them as part of these

1728
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:13,290
same articles in which they're

1729
01:22:23,470 --> 01:22:18,090
describing the research but there is I

1730
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:23,480
think rarely consensus about the

1731
01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:25,770
conclusions maybe there is sometimes

1732
01:22:34,459 --> 01:22:29,550
maybe it would be good to institute some

1733
01:22:37,939 --> 01:22:34,469
sort of regular Society wide review of

1734
01:22:41,149 --> 01:22:37,949
well hey hey here's here's the recent

1735
01:22:43,839 --> 01:22:41,159
research in topic thus and so and what

1736
01:22:46,729 --> 01:22:43,849
the researchers have said about it what

1737
01:22:52,250 --> 01:22:46,739
what what's the sense of the society

1738
01:22:54,290 --> 01:22:52,260
about these ideas but the other thing is

1739
01:22:56,959 --> 01:22:54,300
and it relates to the fact that there

1740
01:22:58,609 --> 01:22:56,969
will probably be a lot of issues at any

1741
01:23:02,689 --> 01:22:58,619
given time on which we do not have

1742
01:23:05,149 --> 01:23:02,699
consensus and that's communicating in

1743
01:23:11,330 --> 01:23:05,159
general in common terms to the general

1744
01:23:14,930 --> 01:23:11,340
public there's a large part of the

1745
01:23:20,799 --> 01:23:14,940
general public that does not like and

1746
01:23:22,910 --> 01:23:20,809
does not want the kind of reasoning and

1747
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:22,920
information that is dealt with in the

1748
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:26,400
sciences some years ago a member of the

1749
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:30,449
US Congress expressed a demand that the

1750
01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:32,250
government finds some one-armed

1751
01:23:39,189 --> 01:23:34,440
scientists as he put it who are

1752
01:23:47,609 --> 01:23:44,740
but science is about ambiguity and

1753
01:23:50,819 --> 01:23:47,619
conditional provisional temporary

1754
01:23:52,409 --> 01:23:50,829
very understandings and there are a lot

1755
01:23:54,449 --> 01:23:52,419
of people in the general public who

1756
01:23:56,449 --> 01:23:54,459
absolutely hate that and can't deal with

1757
01:23:59,759 --> 01:23:56,459
it at all no matter how its expressed

1758
01:24:01,560 --> 01:23:59,769
yeah and I think I think we have a we

1759
01:24:06,810 --> 01:24:01,570
have a challenge here and I told I'm

1760
01:24:09,419 --> 01:24:06,820
totally with you but this this is the

1761
01:24:11,369 --> 01:24:09,429
point it doesn't it doesn't really you

1762
01:24:12,839 --> 01:24:11,379
see we we are then if that if if we

1763
01:24:16,259 --> 01:24:12,849
can't fix that problem

1764
01:24:18,989 --> 01:24:16,269
if we can't actually somehow get a grip

1765
01:24:22,350 --> 01:24:18,999
on that particular problem that we need

1766
01:24:23,850 --> 01:24:22,360
to drive consensus somehow and it's not

1767
01:24:25,379 --> 01:24:23,860
in the level of detail that you are

1768
01:24:27,359 --> 01:24:25,389
dealing with on a daily basis it's a

1769
01:24:29,369 --> 01:24:27,369
level of detail that Tanya and I

1770
01:24:31,429 --> 01:24:29,379
basically need to know it right this is

1771
01:24:33,629 --> 01:24:31,439
a this is probably a different kind of

1772
01:24:35,339 --> 01:24:33,639
aggregation of information it's not

1773
01:24:37,139 --> 01:24:35,349
really down in the trenches where you

1774
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:37,149
need to actually really find out whether

1775
01:24:41,580 --> 01:24:39,280
this is the better method all that but

1776
01:24:44,219 --> 01:24:41,590
it's on a higher level so I think we

1777
01:24:46,859 --> 01:24:44,229
have a challenge here because we want we

1778
01:24:48,540 --> 01:24:46,869
want the SSE to do this but then it on

1779
01:24:51,149 --> 01:24:48,550
the other hand we say we actually can't

1780
01:24:52,739 --> 01:24:51,159
do it and we have got a market there

1781
01:24:54,089 --> 01:24:52,749
we've got a Tonya in the constant there

1782
01:24:57,689 --> 01:24:54,099
who basically say would be really good

1783
01:24:59,459 --> 01:24:57,699
if we could get that right so all I'm

1784
01:25:02,129 --> 01:24:59,469
saying is I think we have a we have an

1785
01:25:04,109 --> 01:25:02,139
issue here where we say we want to do

1786
01:25:07,739 --> 01:25:04,119
something but on the other hand we feel

1787
01:25:09,929 --> 01:25:07,749
incapable of doing something sorry I'd

1788
01:25:11,580 --> 01:25:09,939
like to I appreciate the fact that you

1789
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:11,590
are two now agrees with what I said this

1790
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:13,570
morning could you just speak up a bit

1791
01:25:20,729 --> 01:25:17,010
more sorry months just a bit louder it's

1792
01:25:22,679 --> 01:25:20,739
alright yeah sorry there you go second

1793
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:22,689
you're the business person who's going

1794
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:26,050
to pay for that the third we already

1795
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:28,719
have a venue for communicating with the

1796
01:25:32,100 --> 01:25:30,610
public which is edge science and Patrick

1797
01:25:35,100 --> 01:25:32,110
can certainly say a lot more about that

1798
01:25:36,540 --> 01:25:35,110
than I can but from what I understand we

1799
01:25:40,020 --> 01:25:36,550
simply have problems of getting people

1800
01:25:43,679 --> 01:25:40,030
writing anything for them so there seems

1801
01:25:45,629 --> 01:25:43,689
to be insufficient energy or you know

1802
01:25:47,399 --> 01:25:45,639
ability or whatever especially since

1803
01:25:48,839 --> 01:25:47,409
nobody's getting paid to do it to

1804
01:25:52,649 --> 01:25:48,849
actually communicate with the public

1805
01:25:55,679 --> 01:25:52,659
and the final point like you're kind of

1806
01:25:58,560 --> 01:25:55,689
making it sound as though you can get

1807
01:25:59,740 --> 01:25:58,570
academics and scientists to do something

1808
01:26:03,160 --> 01:25:59,750
like in a group

1809
01:26:06,730 --> 01:26:03,170
mass or agree to something like have you

1810
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:06,740
ever tried like herding cats like that

1811
01:26:11,230 --> 01:26:08,570
that's the usual expression for trying

1812
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:11,240
to understand like as you know a senior

1813
01:26:15,970 --> 01:26:13,250
university administrator will say like

1814
01:26:18,130 --> 01:26:15,980
yeah it's like herding cats well yeah

1815
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:18,140
you know how well you can herd cats not

1816
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:21,530
very well so I mean that's what we're up

1817
01:26:24,220 --> 01:26:22,010
against

1818
01:26:27,430 --> 01:26:24,230
believe me we have got cats in business

1819
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:27,440
as well so but but I take I take your

1820
01:26:36,180 --> 01:26:31,810
point we have cats right we have got I

1821
01:26:38,590 --> 01:26:36,190
think science as a general rule

1822
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:38,600
scientists have a great deal of

1823
01:26:43,930 --> 01:26:41,330
difficulty with is saying I don't know

1824
01:26:48,010 --> 01:26:43,940
hmm and I think that's one of the

1825
01:26:52,270 --> 01:26:48,020
reasons why the public has a certain

1826
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:52,280
disregard for them but what would be so

1827
01:26:58,690 --> 01:26:55,760
wrong with this society coming out and

1828
01:27:00,750 --> 01:26:58,700
honestly saying we don't know but here

1829
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:00,760
are a couple of different perspectives

1830
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:05,210
what if we could present not a consensus

1831
01:27:12,850 --> 01:27:08,000
mm-hmm but to present the different

1832
01:27:16,060 --> 01:27:12,860
points of an argument in maybe an edge

1833
01:27:19,030 --> 01:27:16,070
science maybe in JSE to the public and

1834
01:27:22,420 --> 01:27:19,040
this way we would also get it beyond the

1835
01:27:24,310 --> 01:27:22,430
the language barrier mm-hmm and just

1836
01:27:26,440 --> 01:27:24,320
come out and say listen this is a topic

1837
01:27:28,540 --> 01:27:26,450
that's under discussion it is a

1838
01:27:30,700 --> 01:27:28,550
controversial one we don't know the

1839
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:30,710
answer but we think it's something

1840
01:27:35,740 --> 01:27:33,290
that's worth exploring mm-hmm and I

1841
01:27:38,890 --> 01:27:35,750
think that that indication of some

1842
01:27:42,550 --> 01:27:38,900
humility might actually be to our

1843
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:42,560
advantage in the public regard yeah no

1844
01:27:47,890 --> 01:27:45,290
this is and I think that that requires

1845
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:47,900
some little bit of Education of the

1846
01:27:51,010 --> 01:27:49,490
public because a lot of times I get

1847
01:27:54,910 --> 01:27:51,020
asked the question well what do you

1848
01:27:56,500 --> 01:27:54,920
believe well that's not my job here's

1849
01:27:59,260 --> 01:27:56,510
what I have found here is the data here

1850
01:28:00,790 --> 01:27:59,270
the conclusions we don't do that so I

1851
01:28:03,940 --> 01:28:00,800
think that would require a little bit of

1852
01:28:05,170 --> 01:28:03,950
Education to go what we don't do is say

1853
01:28:12,180 --> 01:28:05,180
this is what it is

1854
01:28:18,670 --> 01:28:15,310
all right oh we have a we have an

1855
01:28:20,980 --> 01:28:18,680
extreme boat over there sir I think it

1856
01:28:23,620 --> 01:28:20,990
might put out some very good points and

1857
01:28:26,260 --> 01:28:23,630
and defined some of the problems we face

1858
01:28:28,390 --> 01:28:26,270
very clearly yeah and for me they're

1859
01:28:31,450 --> 01:28:28,400
challenges these are things we have to

1860
01:28:33,700 --> 01:28:31,460
look to how can we get past them when we

1861
01:28:36,220 --> 01:28:33,710
start to communicate with people in a

1862
01:28:39,250 --> 01:28:36,230
more wide way and how do we get people

1863
01:28:40,780 --> 01:28:39,260
to cooperate together to do this now one

1864
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:40,790
of the things that I think you were

1865
01:28:44,710 --> 01:28:42,590
speaking about this morning is trying to

1866
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:44,720
have a common message mm-hmm and having

1867
01:28:48,610 --> 01:28:47,210
a single message and if we all just use

1868
01:28:51,550 --> 01:28:48,620
that message I've seen it work in

1869
01:28:53,550 --> 01:28:51,560
politics dramatically if we all just use

1870
01:28:56,290 --> 01:28:53,560
the same message and kept it very simple

1871
01:28:58,330 --> 01:28:56,300
it would start to penetrate into other

1872
01:29:00,280 --> 01:28:58,340
markets yes and we might be able to get

1873
01:29:02,260 --> 01:29:00,290
through them yeah I think from from a

1874
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:02,270
receivers point of view that is that is

1875
01:29:07,480 --> 01:29:05,450
exactly what what Tanya and and others

1876
01:29:09,310 --> 01:29:07,490
would look for right it's not it's not

1877
01:29:11,470 --> 01:29:09,320
the the details it's just really some

1878
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:11,480
core messages some some principle

1879
01:29:15,130 --> 01:29:13,250
statements it's not more and then there

1880
01:29:17,140 --> 01:29:15,140
is one one one last thing I would want

1881
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:17,150
to pick up from a man's comment that is

1882
01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:19,730
like who pays for that and I would want

1883
01:29:24,730 --> 01:29:21,950
to give that question to to Tanya and

1884
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:24,740
because she has got the money certainly

1885
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:30,050
not me I think the opportunities for

1886
01:29:35,230 --> 01:29:33,170
funding from from corporations is

1887
01:29:36,100 --> 01:29:35,240
enormous the problem is that we don't

1888
01:29:38,350 --> 01:29:36,110
know who to talk to

1889
01:29:40,540 --> 01:29:38,360
we don't know who needs funding we don't

1890
01:29:43,450 --> 01:29:40,550
know you need funding for businesses are

1891
01:29:48,010 --> 01:29:43,460
really good at asking for things start

1892
01:29:49,540 --> 01:29:48,020
asking so everybody yeah so so so this

1893
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:49,550
is this is an interesting thing because

1894
01:29:55,450 --> 01:29:51,650
as soon as we would define what we what

1895
01:29:57,250 --> 01:29:55,460
we want to work upon then probably there

1896
01:30:00,490 --> 01:29:57,260
is a support right probably there is a

1897
01:30:02,620 --> 01:30:00,500
support from a from a point of view of

1898
01:30:04,780 --> 01:30:02,630
integrating it as well I mean yeah it

1899
01:30:05,950 --> 01:30:04,790
might need money it might be funding but

1900
01:30:07,870 --> 01:30:05,960
we have not said that that is not

1901
01:30:09,460 --> 01:30:07,880
available I think there are companies

1902
01:30:10,870 --> 01:30:09,470
around and there are probably also rich

1903
01:30:13,780 --> 01:30:10,880
people around who just wanna sort of

1904
01:30:16,540 --> 01:30:13,790
help help the society by pulling things

1905
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:16,550
together so annalisa I I've been holding

1906
01:30:21,730 --> 01:30:19,730
this mic for a while sorry I didn't so I

1907
01:30:22,949 --> 01:30:21,740
would like to suggest a softer

1908
01:30:25,979 --> 01:30:22,959
alternative

1909
01:30:29,239 --> 01:30:25,989
- drawing relevant conclusions and

1910
01:30:32,759 --> 01:30:29,249
imagine it instead as disseminating

1911
01:30:34,770 --> 01:30:32,769
responsible information and let me give

1912
01:30:37,469 --> 01:30:34,780
you an example for instance in the field

1913
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:37,479
of parapsychology we have phenomena such

1914
01:30:41,669 --> 01:30:39,130
as near-death experiences and

1915
01:30:45,149 --> 01:30:41,679
out-of-body experiences now the jury is

1916
01:30:46,709 --> 01:30:45,159
still out on the mechanisms behind these

1917
01:30:49,290 --> 01:30:46,719
things whether they are as people

1918
01:30:52,290 --> 01:30:49,300
experience them and etc but there's also

1919
01:30:54,239 --> 01:30:52,300
a wide culture there's a wide array of

1920
01:30:56,250 --> 01:30:54,249
people who have these experiences and

1921
01:31:00,120 --> 01:30:56,260
often will turn to the PA for instance

1922
01:31:03,509 --> 01:31:00,130
with what's happening what's going on

1923
01:31:06,359 --> 01:31:03,519
yeah and you know to not say anything at

1924
01:31:08,910 --> 01:31:06,369
all is it disservice because even though

1925
01:31:10,410 --> 01:31:08,920
we haven't reached a relevant conclusion

1926
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:10,420
there's still some really good

1927
01:31:14,250 --> 01:31:12,610
information yeah some information that

1928
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:14,260
is better than information from other

1929
01:31:19,649 --> 01:31:17,650
resources for instance okay and then the

1930
01:31:21,330 --> 01:31:19,659
second thing I want to comment on this

1931
01:31:24,149 --> 01:31:21,340
idea of the general public I really

1932
01:31:26,850 --> 01:31:24,159
don't think there's such a thing it

1933
01:31:28,949 --> 01:31:26,860
belongs in the same mythical category

1934
01:31:33,689 --> 01:31:28,959
with the objective objectivity and

1935
01:31:41,270 --> 01:31:33,699
unicorns there are a lot of unicorns in

1936
01:31:47,810 --> 01:31:44,390
I think one thing that we need to make

1937
01:31:51,770 --> 01:31:47,820
sure that we you know include is not

1938
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:51,780
only do we kind of just communicate our

1939
01:31:57,610 --> 01:31:53,370
research and the things that we're doing

1940
01:32:01,040 --> 01:31:57,620
but kind of make it clear of what the

1941
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:01,050
research could bring you know and I know

1942
01:32:05,030 --> 01:32:03,330
a lot of us are engineers here and a lot

1943
01:32:07,700 --> 01:32:05,040
of us have ideas on what are these what

1944
01:32:10,010 --> 01:32:07,710
these things could do and I think that

1945
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:10,020
would bring the public's attention and

1946
01:32:14,050 --> 01:32:12,449
you know the needs of you know like what

1947
01:32:16,250 --> 01:32:14,060
we were talking about really education

1948
01:32:19,300 --> 01:32:16,260
healthcare and that would really like

1949
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:19,310
spark their attention had hey like

1950
01:32:25,250 --> 01:32:22,170
here's what we found we still don't know

1951
01:32:27,410 --> 01:32:25,260
but if we did know then this is what

1952
01:32:29,540 --> 01:32:27,420
could happen interesting yeah so it's

1953
01:32:31,970 --> 01:32:29,550
not it's not to establish something as a

1954
01:32:35,540 --> 01:32:31,980
actual fact or whatever but to say okay

1955
01:32:37,669 --> 01:32:35,550
this is interesting news right and and

1956
01:32:40,100 --> 01:32:37,679
probably probably you should leave it up

1957
01:32:42,169 --> 01:32:40,110
to the to the businesses or to whoever

1958
01:32:44,540 --> 01:32:42,179
to decide I mean if you put things in

1959
01:32:46,250 --> 01:32:44,550
front of them the conclusion drawing in

1960
01:32:48,050 --> 01:32:46,260
terms of okay whether someone actually

1961
01:32:49,970 --> 01:32:48,060
believes it or not it's it's a

1962
01:32:51,290 --> 01:32:49,980
subjective thing like an ELISA says from

1963
01:32:54,110 --> 01:32:51,300
my point of view right it's it's all

1964
01:32:58,479 --> 01:32:54,120
subjective even engineers you know who

1965
01:33:04,250 --> 01:33:01,490
yeah I'd like to take a last a last

1966
01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:04,260
comment would you oh sorry I mean sorry

1967
01:33:08,570 --> 01:33:06,690
it's just in terms of time yeah so so

1968
01:33:10,010 --> 01:33:08,580
I've got 17 comments that are lined up

1969
01:33:11,870 --> 01:33:10,020
all right now pick the most of them

1970
01:33:14,419 --> 01:33:11,880
quick the most runs anyone well they're

1971
01:33:18,979 --> 01:33:14,429
all actually combined and there weren't

1972
01:33:20,510 --> 01:33:18,989
seventeen so I had the same reaction to

1973
01:33:23,090 --> 01:33:20,520
too many of the comments that came up

1974
01:33:24,919 --> 01:33:23,100
and I found myself staring more at the

1975
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:24,929
description of this and particularly it

1976
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:28,050
draws relevant conclusions but something

1977
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:30,000
to think about is it doesn't say drawing

1978
01:33:36,350 --> 01:33:33,090
the one canonical relevant conclusion

1979
01:33:39,110 --> 01:33:36,360
and what helped me understand this was

1980
01:33:42,229 --> 01:33:39,120
to reread that sentence and say the

1981
01:33:45,979 --> 01:33:42,239
Society for scientific is Palermo that's

1982
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:45,989
us right so another way of reading this

1983
01:33:51,500 --> 01:33:48,090
and it would be interesting to see how

1984
01:33:52,460 --> 01:33:51,510
the votes change is I will participate

1985
01:33:54,230 --> 01:33:52,470
in a critical

1986
01:33:57,320 --> 01:33:54,240
for sharing original research and so

1987
01:33:59,660 --> 01:33:57,330
forth I will draw relevant conclusions

1988
01:34:03,410 --> 01:33:59,670
based on converging evidence as seen and

1989
01:34:05,150 --> 01:34:03,420
I will communicate those in common terms

1990
01:34:07,310 --> 01:34:05,160
through the general public and all of a

1991
01:34:08,180 --> 01:34:07,320
sudden now we as a community are asking

1992
01:34:09,590 --> 01:34:08,190
ourselves are we gonna take

1993
01:34:11,660 --> 01:34:09,600
responsibility for doing these things

1994
01:34:14,240 --> 01:34:11,670
are we actually buying into this by

1995
01:34:17,450 --> 01:34:14,250
saying up part of the SSE I'm going to

1996
01:34:19,550 --> 01:34:17,460
be that that impetus for change right

1997
01:34:22,190 --> 01:34:19,560
and it'd be interesting to see how many

1998
01:34:23,780 --> 01:34:22,200
people are actually III thought it was

1999
01:34:25,820 --> 01:34:23,790
the yes to see that was gonna you that

2000
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:25,830
you guys you somebody else is going to

2001
01:34:30,650 --> 01:34:27,120
do that right I'm just gonna come to the

2002
01:34:31,970 --> 01:34:30,660
meeting no because we are that community

2003
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:31,980
and it really will change the way that

2004
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:33,570
we look at this and put these other

2005
01:34:38,150 --> 01:34:35,850
comments in perspective and then I'm

2006
01:34:40,490 --> 01:34:38,160
gonna sneak in one more which is just a

2007
01:34:44,210 --> 01:34:40,500
question back to something that sunny

2008
01:34:46,910 --> 01:34:44,220
areas which is wood industry with the

2009
01:34:49,610 --> 01:34:46,920
commercial sector if it turned out that

2010
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:49,620
all this stuff really pointed to the

2011
01:34:54,650 --> 01:34:51,890
idea that the betterment of society

2012
01:35:01,310 --> 01:34:54,660
comes down to spending a lot less money

2013
01:35:02,900 --> 01:35:01,320
on crap what money still be there would

2014
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:02,910
money still be there or what the crap

2015
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:08,970
still be there research if there wasn't

2016
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:10,890
a profit motive or in fact if it was

2017
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:13,890
reversed if in fact it turned out that

2018
01:35:20,210 --> 01:35:18,330
there was an anti profit motive because

2019
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:20,220
that's a distinct possibility out of all

2020
01:35:24,890 --> 01:35:22,370
this which is we should rise above

2021
01:35:26,990 --> 01:35:24,900
materialism and the idea that buying

2022
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:27,000
things is going to make us happy that

2023
01:35:30,410 --> 01:35:29,010
actually may not be in the best interest

2024
01:35:31,910 --> 01:35:30,420
of all the people who have the money and

2025
01:35:34,010 --> 01:35:31,920
they want to invest because they're in

2026
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:34,020
it for a profit now not all commercial

2027
01:35:38,300 --> 01:35:36,810
sectors in a for-profit so you know I'm

2028
01:35:41,030 --> 01:35:38,310
not trying to draw a conclusion there

2029
01:35:42,710 --> 01:35:41,040
yeah I think in a utopian world I think

2030
01:35:45,380 --> 01:35:42,720
the right companies would still be there

2031
01:35:47,230 --> 01:35:45,390
and I see others would follow them I

2032
01:35:50,030 --> 01:35:47,240
think I think this is the case because I

2033
01:35:52,610 --> 01:35:50,040
think there are more and more companies

2034
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:52,620
showing that they have also this kind of

2035
01:35:56,990 --> 01:35:54,530
mindset that they are not only putting

2036
01:35:59,570 --> 01:35:57,000
profit I mean we had this thing in the

2037
01:36:01,880 --> 01:35:59,580
business which were called single profit

2038
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:01,890
single bottom line versus triple bottom

2039
01:36:05,170 --> 01:36:03,210
line so single prop

2040
01:36:08,140 --> 01:36:05,180
a single bottom line was only prof

2041
01:36:10,720 --> 01:36:08,150
and triple bottom line is people profit

2042
01:36:12,010 --> 01:36:10,730
and planet right so there are these kind

2043
01:36:14,710 --> 01:36:12,020
of things and I think it's a process

2044
01:36:17,170 --> 01:36:14,720
it's it's gradually shifting towards

2045
01:36:18,940 --> 01:36:17,180
that direction and one could say okay if

2046
01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:18,950
this hasn't checked if this hasn't

2047
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:20,570
shifted we can't do anything about it or

2048
01:36:23,860 --> 01:36:21,650
we could take an attitude which

2049
01:36:26,650 --> 01:36:23,870
basically says we will support the shift

2050
01:36:28,810 --> 01:36:26,660
by what we do right and with that

2051
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:28,820
because I'm seriously concerned that

2052
01:36:36,070 --> 01:36:29,930
this building is going to collapse

2053
01:36:38,460 --> 01:36:36,080
instance in 30 seconds is a product oh

2054
01:36:40,810 --> 01:36:38,470
yeah information is a product absolutely

2055
01:36:43,570 --> 01:36:40,820
okay before the Thunder ghetto all right

2056
01:36:45,130 --> 01:36:43,580
okay thank you very much it's highly

2057
01:36:47,020 --> 01:36:45,140
appreciated I hope you basically got

2058
01:36:49,480 --> 01:36:47,030
something out of the conversations bill

2059
01:36:51,610 --> 01:36:49,490
is going to put his statistics hat into

2060
01:36:53,470 --> 01:36:51,620
this and see whether you can make some

2061
01:36:56,770 --> 01:36:53,480
sense out of non statistically relevant

2062
01:36:58,330 --> 01:36:56,780
data I wish you a very nice evening I'm

2063
01:37:00,490 --> 01:36:58,340
looking forward to see you guys all

2064
01:37:00,940 --> 01:37:00,500
tomorrow for the for the next day of the